Open Stance Okay or No way?

[Gunther]

On Monday, November 09, 2015 at 11:32 PM, iacas said:

Not necessarily. I'm more likely to hit a little draw from an open stance, and a fade from a closed stance. My body tries to swing "toward" the target… left of a closed stance, right of an open stance. My brother-in-law is the same way. Hits some nice draws from a pretty open stance.

An open stance is often perfectly fine.

I continue to be surprised by your comments.  Everything I've always believed about golf, it seems you have an opposing perspective.  Cannot imagine playing a draw from an open stance.  Not to say I haven't doubled crossed my fair share and pulled a few while open, but a consistent draw?  I can't fathom it.  

Not saying you're wrong because I've never seen you to be wrong about the golf swing (other topics? mmm, perhaps ), just confounding.

[sirhacksalot]

Pros of open for me 

1. target, I have the "feeling" that I know where the target is and can swing to it ***this is a big one from me***

2. Seems easier on my back.  I'm young but after 20 years of horse farms, then restaurants, then construction 6 days a week. Even @ 33 my back gives me problems.

Cons- 

1. Feel like there is more tendency to hit the ball thin

2. Feel like there may be some loss of power 

3. Feel like I struggle with ball position "of course this is only temporary"

4. Restricts my knee flex slightly which tends to get me to stand a bit upright when not thinking of it which leads to 1-3.  And possibly struggling to present the proper lie angle. Feeling a lil more heely and toey into the mat

 

 

[Mike Boatright]

4 hours ago, saevel25 said:

 you haven't shown any facts that say an open stance actually restricts how the body turns. 

So what anatomically is happening with an open stance that is causing it to hinder the turn? You are the one who is saying it goes counter to how the hips and shoulders are designed? 

If your right handed it has to do with your left leg. If you make it extreme enough say almost facing the target then it's 100% impossible to even make a swing. When your feet isn't perpendicular with your other foot and the left leg is open it automatically opens you hips in a pre set position this makes it harder and harder to make an upper body turn the more open it is. It's just a feel thing and kinda common sense right I mean it's human anatomy.? Believe it or not I'm a big supporter of the open stance at times especially wedged that don't require a big turn.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Mike Boatright

[saevel25]

 

1 minute ago, Mike Boatright said:

When your feet isn't perpendicular with your other foot and the left leg open it automatically opens you hips in a pre set position this makes it harder and harder to make an upper body turn the more open it is.

I can see if you open up like 45 degrees it can be difficult. I can open my feet up 22-25 degrees and make the same shoulder turn as I usually do. There is probably little to no hinderance even out to that amount. That is a pretty open stance. That would be aiming about 90 yards left on a 200 yard shot. 

7 minutes ago, Mike Boatright said:

It's just a feel thing and kinda common sense right I mean it's human anatomy.? Believe it or not I'm a big supporter of the open stance at times especially wedged that don't require a big turn.

I don't know if it is feel. I wouldn't chalk it up to common sense. 

Here is me in a FO view. My feet are angled 25 degrees from the target line. 

My shoulders get to perpendicular with the target line with a 25 degree open stance. You would probably need to get into the 35+ degree range before it becomes troublesome. In most cases people are going to aim 40 yards left of target. Subconsciously they are playing that slice. Most slices are probably 30-40 yards. So 40 yards over 220 yards is aiming 11 degrees open. There is no issue anatomically with aiming 10-15 degrees with regards to making a shoulder turn. 

 

[Mike Boatright]

17 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

 

I can see if you open up like 45 degrees it can be difficult. I can open my feet up 22-25 degrees and make the same shoulder turn as I usually do. There is probably little to no hinderance even out to that amount. That is a pretty open stance. That would be aiming about 90 yards left on a 200 yard shot. 

I don't know if it is feel. I wouldn't chalk it up to common sense. 

Here is me in a FO view. My feet are angled 25 degrees from the target line. 

My shoulders get to perpendicular with the target line with a 25 degree open stance. You would probably need to get into the 35+ degree range before it becomes troublesome. In most cases people are going to aim 40 yards left of target. Subconsciously they are playing that slice. Most slices are probably 30-40 yards. So 40 yards over 220 yards is aiming 11 degrees open. There is no issue anatomically with aiming 10-15 degrees with regards to making a shoulder turn. 

 

Oh I agree as long your reasonably flexible then it might actually be a plus to your swing. When I was younger I hand such a narrow stance because I'm hyper flexible and over swung most of the time. Just recently adopted an open stance actually because it was really getting my right arm involved more but it was causing snap hooks so I quit on it for now..

[billchao]

23 minutes ago, Mike Boatright said:

Just recently adopted an open stance actually because it was really getting my right arm involved more but it was causing snap hooks so I quit on it for now..

This is probably because you swing towards the target as @iacas said, so aiming left just makes you swing out more to the right.

[Mike Boatright]

7 minutes ago, billchao said:

This is probably because you swing towards the target as @iacas said, so aiming left just makes you swing out more to the right.

Perhaps maybes so. I think it was a smother across the ball hook or heel push. When I got the ball position forward enough with the big stick I hit uber high draws that was working well but it was hit or miss so I wen t back to square.

[billchao]

24 minutes ago, Mike Boatright said:

Perhaps maybes so. I think it was a smother across the ball hook or heel push.

Everything you're saying supports what I said, with the exception that I don't know what a "smother across the ball hook" is. Gear effect on a heel strike is supposed to fade the ball, so your path has got to the right unless you are hitting pull hooks.

24 minutes ago, Mike Boatright said:

When I got the ball position forward enough with the big stick I hit uber high draws that was working well but it was hit or miss so I wen t back to square.

The more forward your ball position is, the later in the swing arc impact is. With the driver, the clubhead goes down and to the right, bottoms out, and starts to come up and back in to the left along its arc. Hitting a high draw with a forward ball position suggests that your swing arc is turned to the right, as a neutral swing arc would have a path going to the left with a +5° AoA.

The latter part makes sense, too. Having a path that's too far in either direction can give you clubface control issues. Last time I got measured, I swung 12° right and couldn't hit the broadside of a barn.

Anyways, if square gives you better results, stick with it. It doesn't affect everyone the same way though. I'm more ball oriented than target oriented. Aiming my clubface at the target and opening up my stance will take some of the draw out of my flight.

[onthehunt526]

On 11/9/2015 at 0:32 AM, iacas said:

Not necessarily. I'm more likely to hit a little draw from an open stance, and a fade from a closed stance. My body tries to swing "toward" the target… left of a closed stance, right of an open stance. My brother-in-law is the same way. Hits some nice draws from a pretty open stance.

An open stance is often perfectly fine.

Didn't Trevino win 6 majors having an Open Stance? 

If memory serves me correctly Nicklaus also played with a slight open stance...

So in conclusion, an open stance is fine.

[iacas]

@onthehunt526, why quote me there? I'm fine with an open stance. Or closed. Whatever works for the golfer.

[onthehunt526]

Oops... my bad, Erik, I must of hit quote button and didn't mean to, but I did have a question, which you answered already, moving on.

[iacas]

8 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

Oops... my bad, Erik, I must of hit quote button and didn't mean to, but I did have a question, which you answered already, moving on.

Okay, just checking.

16 hours ago, Gunther said:

I continue to be surprised by your comments.  Everything I've always believed about golf, it seems you have an opposing perspective.  Cannot imagine playing a draw from an open stance.  Not to say I haven't doubled crossed my fair share and pulled a few while open, but a consistent draw?  I can't fathom it.  

People don't always swing perfectly perpendicular or parallel (depending on how you look at it) to their stance. Consider how most people slice, and a good number of them aim right of the target line.

[onthehunt526]

Maybe an open stance helps you see your lines better? 

I've heard that an open stance helps you see the line better putting. But that's neither here nor there.

[sirhacksalot]

9 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

Maybe an open stance helps you see your lines better? 

I've heard that an open stance helps you see the line better putting. But that's neither here northe

Actually seeing target line better is a huge reason why I started this thread. And yes putting has improved a lot since placing ball further back in an open stance.  

Hoping the same thing will be said of full swing

[Buckeyebowman]

On 3/17/2016 at 9:12 AM, iacas said:

Okay, just checking.

People don't always swing perfectly perpendicular or parallel (depending on how you look at it) to their stance. Consider how most people slice, and a good number of them aim right of the target line.

BAZINGA! I once watched an instructional video where they had signed up 11 students for the clinic. The instructor said, "Well, we're at 100%! Every one of our students lines up to the right!" I have a buddy that does this. On one hole at a local course, where we're teeing off out of a chute of trees, he has his feet pointed dead into the trees on the right. He then throws the club over the top and tries to yank it back into the fairway. God knows how, but he makes it work more times than not!

Oddly enough, he does the exact opposite when putting. He'll have his feet aimed way left, pull the putter inside and shove the ball toward the hole. It's amazing the things you can see on the course!