Poor Treatment of Muslim Passengers

[Golfingdad]

8 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

You're getting the liberal interpretation of what they are saying.  I've avoided the Trump thread as promised but your throwing out a lot of misinformation that I feel obligated to respond to.  There's a difference between being xenophobic and requesting due diligence.  Being allowed into this country isn't a right, it's a privilege and therefore we need to ensure that people entering this country do so with the best of intentions.  The CIA, FBI and Homeland security all acknowledge that the vetting of refugees is difficult, if not impossible beyond the information the refugees provide on their application.

Trump nor any GOP candidate to my knowledge requested anything beyond a database to track the refugees throughout our country to ensure they are not part of ISIS or other terrorist organization.   Trump never requested or suggested a database to track all of the Muslims in the country today that was mis-reported and retracted by NBC.

For the record, we are all in numerous databases already, SSN, IRS, State databases, criminal history databases, commercial databases, gun registration databases, security clearance databases, etc.  I'm sure NSA has a database of all social media and online participants too.  Being in a database doesn't mean much, if it did, we should all be outraged.

Your response doesn't seem to apply to the OP or even relate to the one you quoted.

[dkolo]

6 hours ago, boogielicious said:

This is what bigotry brings, paranoia. We are letting our politicians cultivate the paranoia. Very sad. 

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. 

[GolfLug]

 

 

 

Amid the chaos and mass hatred I think as a species we are in a very unprecedented and important phase of growth.

Refuse to be disheartened. Let them open your boxes as often as they want with a large and sincere smile on your face... refuse to be indignant...more baklavas they see, more they will see they same sweetness in your lives as they would in their own kind. Remember, the scariest demons are the ones that you don't see.

[Gunther]

Perhaps unsurprisingly to some, I have a somewhat different perspective on this.  

I don't like that these types of things occur, however, I focus my indignation where it belongs:  with radical Muslim jihadists, not with regular folks who may be fearful or vigilant.  It could be that a few of the vigilant are bigots but I don't throw around those words unless I know their hearts.

Some may have seen the endless list of terrorist attacks that have occurred over the past few years; it dwarfed the few incidents reported in the OP.  So, pardon me if I have little sympathy for a few law-abiding Muslims who have been inconvenienced when so many more have been killed or maimed.

We need to get serious about this threat.  They have told us what they want to do, they have told us that thousands of their soldiers are already here.  Spending time on political correctness distracts from the true mission which is to destroy the Caliphate.  Once we do that, we can turn our focus to less important things like people's feelings.

[rkim291968]

17 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

You're getting the liberal interpretation of what they are saying.  I've avoided the Trump thread as promised but your throwing out a lot of misinformation that I feel obligated to respond to.  There's a difference between being xenophobic and requesting due diligence.  Being allowed into this country isn't a right, it's a privilege and therefore we need to ensure that people entering this country do so with the best of intentions.  The CIA, FBI and Homeland security all acknowledge that the vetting of refugees is difficult, if not impossible beyond the information the refugees provide on their application.

Trump nor any GOP candidate to my knowledge requested anything beyond a database to track the refugees throughout our country to ensure they are not part of ISIS or other terrorist organization.   Trump never requested or suggested a database to track all of the Muslims in the country today that was mis-reported and retracted by NBC.

For the record, we are all in numerous databases already, SSN, IRS, State databases, criminal history databases, commercial databases, gun registration databases, security clearance databases, etc.  I'm sure NSA has a database of all social media and online participants too.  Being in a database doesn't mean much, if it did, we should all be outraged.

 I don't believe I have commented on Muslim database/registration issue.   But now that you mention it,  I thought CNN was trying to goad Trump into saying something stupid.   I left it at that.  

[newtogolf]

3 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

 I don't believe I have commented on Muslim database/registration issue.   But now that you mention it,  I thought CNN was trying to goad Trump into saying something stupid.   I left it at that. 

I wrongly assumed your "fueling the fire" comment was also referring to the databases some in the GOP (including Trump) have requested.

As to Trump's assertion that some people cheered during 9/11, I wouldn't be shocked if some were cheering given the tensions between us and the Middle East at that time.  I also wasn't surprised that some cheered on looters and rioters in Ferguson and Baltimore.  Are you disputing it happened or do you feel it was inappropriate for Trump to mention it?

[rkim291968]

5 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I wrongly assumed your "fueling the fire" comment was also referring to the databases some in the GOP (including Trump) have requested.

As to Trump's assertion that some people cheered during 9/11, I wouldn't be shocked if some were cheering given the tensions between us and the Middle East at that time.  I also wasn't surprised that some cheered on looters and rioters in Ferguson and Baltimore.  Are you disputing it happened or do you feel it was inappropriate for Trump to mention it?

Sorry, I was being general and didn't mean to refer to the recent database/registration issue that I don't know much about the legality of it all.   

Back to the OT, the behavior toward the Muslim passengers in plane is what ISIS wants to see happen.   Sad, really.

[jamo]

31 minutes ago, Gunther said:

I don't like that these types of things occur, however, I focus my indignation where it belongs:  with radical Muslim jihadists, not with regular folks who may be fearful or vigilant.  

It's not possible to do both?

[newtogolf]

3 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

Sorry, I was being general and didn't mean to refer to the recent database/registration issue that I don't know much about the legality of it all. 

Back to the OT, the behavior toward the Muslim passengers in plane is what ISIS wants to see happen.   Sad, really.

That we both agree on, the more we alienate good law abiding Muslims the easier it will be for ISIS / ISIL to recruit them.

[Lihu]

14 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

That we both agree on, the more we alienate good law abiding Muslims the easier it will be for ISIS / ISIL to recruit them.

Agree, and it's fuel for the fire they set.

I'm all for being vigilant, and we should be extemely careful.

However, the Arabic men who were denied getting boarded because they were speaking their native language was the wrong reaction for the airline. If I were the airline, I would have  simply asked the objecting passengers "So, which flight can I put you on?"

They threw the wrong people off the plane.

[Gunther]

15 minutes ago, jamo said:

It's not possible to do both?

In my mind, no.  What if a bomb had been discovered?  They'd be heros.  

Jihadists are responsible for the heightened sense of fear and vigilance and they should be the only targets of our scorn and derision.

[Gator Hazard]

I think in general the vast majority here agree with the OP and are upset at how foolish individuals can be.  I refrained from commenting on this topic for a while because things of this nature are very upsetting. To put blame with ISIS for what they did is correct, but I also blame ignorant and or bigoted fools for doing and saying the things they are.

@Gunther ISIS is not at fault for  regular people acting like assholes to their fellow man, that falls on the individuals themselves.  The old saying applies that no one can make you feel a certain way, your emotions are your own, and I believe that once we become adults this is true.  It is up to us to conduct ourselves properly and not let irrational group herd behavior creep in and lead us down a slope of bigotry.  

I hope we see the opposite, I hope we see more unification and standing together, I hope we see less headlines.  The best thing to see would be nothing at all, no showcasing of the good or the evils, but that people continue to go about their everyday lives after the tragedies, mindful of them but not giving them the power that the radicals want them to have.

[newtogolf]

13 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Agree, and it's fuel for the fire they set.

I'm all for being vigilant, and we should be extemely careful.

However, the Arabic men who were denied getting boarded because they were speaking their native language was the wrong reaction for the airline. If I were the airline, I would have  simply asked the objecting passengers "So, which flight can I put you on?"

They threw the wrong people off the plane.

I don't disagree, but looking at it from the airline point of view, it's all about liability.  If the men who were denied boarding turned out to be terrorists and the airline did nothing the legal and financial repercussions could have bankrupted the company.  There is also the potential of an altercation during the flight which would put more people at harm.

I'd have preferred the airline officials spoke to the Arabic gentleman, verified they were who they said they were and once confident they weren't a threat allow them to board the plane and offer those who were concerned or uncomfortable to fly on a different flight.

[No Mulligans]

5 hours ago, newtogolf said:

A few thoughts;

• Non-radical Muslims must take up the fight to rid the world of the radicals.  Radicals will only continue to escalate the isolation and violence towards Muslims and make it more difficult for Muslims to integrate into non-Muslim communities.  We had a civil war in the United States because half of the country didn't agree with how the other half was treating slaves and representing the overall view of Americans. 

+1, that would be a great development. 

Is this happening to any extent?  If not, why not?

[Mr. Desmond]

7 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

+1, that would be a great development. 

Is this happening to any extent?  If not, why not?

The individual ME countries have other goals, other alliances, other interests, other revolutions to squash. They are distracted. For example, Saudis are involved in Yemen, and as a writer in the NYT implied - Why would they act? They are the mother of ISIS... Read another article where the various religious sects all have different interests and allies... mind boggling stuff.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Mr. Desmond

[Abu3baid]

4 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

+1, that would be a great development. 

Is this happening to any extent?  If not, why not?

I didn't reply to him because it is OT for this thread and would derail it for sure.. However, feel free to start a thread about what should non-radical Muslims do and what extents you wish to see it.. i.e. From denouncing it to suiting up and going after them with weapons.

1 hour ago, Gunther said:

Perhaps unsurprisingly to some, I have a somewhat different perspective on this.  

I don't like that these types of things occur, however, I focus my indignation where it belongs:  with radical Muslim jihadists, not with regular folks who may be fearful or vigilant.  It could be that a few of the vigilant are bigots but I don't throw around those words unless I know their hearts.

Some may have seen the endless list of terrorist attacks that have occurred over the past few years; it dwarfed the few incidents reported in the OP.  So, pardon me if I have little sympathy for a few law-abiding Muslims who have been inconvenienced when so many more have been killed or maimed.

We need to get serious about this threat.  They have told us what they want to do, they have told us that thousands of their soldiers are already here.  Spending time on political correctness distracts from the true mission which is to destroy the Caliphate.  Once we do that, we can turn our focus to less important things like people's feelings.

I have no issue with what you are saying at all, the only thing I ask is put all the security features in the world and profile me and my little 2 week old baby all you want.. However, once you have cleared me don't let me get inconvenienced by some bigot that just doesn't like Arabs or is afraid the boogie man Islamic jihadist is going to get him.  I don't think that is too much to ask is it?  Or do you think that my time is not as valuable as others because I am Arab and Muslim?  I already come 3 hours early to my flights to ensure that I have enough time to go through the special attention they give me, but I have to deal with other passengers too?

keep it official, and the less Busch League of an operation it is the better IMO.

19 minutes ago, Gunther said:

In my mind, no.  What if a bomb had been discovered?  They'd be heros.  

Jihadists are responsible for the heightened sense of fear and vigilance and they should be the only targets of our scorn and derision.

You call it vigilance and I call it bigotry and hatred.. I'm sorry, but if you have no faith or trust in the system in place to ensure that a passenger is not carrying a bomb then you shouldn't be flying..  People need to be logical and stop being stupid.. If a terrorist wanted to infiltrate security and get on a plane he would not look like a Muslim and certainly will not be speaking Arabic to a friend! This won't help you sleep at night, but Arabs are a minority in the Muslim community, and terrorists aren't always going to have a full length beard and wear the white garb and a turban with a sign that says I'm Muslim please search me carefully.

When I worked in the States in the mid 2000's a guy I respect told me that as long as I didn't come to work with a shaved beard that he felt safe.. When I asked him why, he said because there is no way someone who wants to do any act of terror is going to come looking like and dressed like an Arab, that would be stupid.  His point was valid back then and IMO valid now.

[rkim291968]

Just one more to add to @Abu3baid's excellent post above ... not all Muslims are Arabs and not all Arabs are Muslims.   ISIS is made up of volunteers from the entire world where Islam fundamentalism exist.   Even non-Muslims have joined the ISIS.   If I am on a plane, I wouldn't be able to tell who is the one that is mostly likely to blow up the plane.   Really.

[dkolo]

2 hours ago, newtogolf said:

I wrongly assumed your "fueling the fire" comment was also referring to the databases some in the GOP (including Trump) have requested.

As to Trump's assertion that some people cheered during 9/11, I wouldn't be shocked if some were cheering given the tensions between us and the Middle East at that time.  I also wasn't surprised that some cheered on looters and rioters in Ferguson and Baltimore.  Are you disputing it happened or do you feel it was inappropriate for Trump to mention it?

This did not happen. Full stop. Trump is fabricating his claim.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/22/donald-trump/fact-checking-trumps-claim-thousands-new-jersey-ch/