To all you Distance Monkeys...

[No Mulligans]

I don't see much of a correlation between how hard I swing with a driver and how accurate I am.  I actually might be a bit more accurate when I swing hard. So, I might as well swing hard. 

 

[dkolo]

4 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

I don't see much of a correlation between how hard I swing with a driver and how accurate I am.  I actually might be a bit more accurate when I swing hard. So, I might as well swing hard. 

 

Reminds me of the old baseball saying, "swing hard in case you hit it."

[Lihu]

3 hours ago, Grumpter said:

I played with an admitted distance junky on Sunday. Seemed like he enjoyed himself, but did get down on himself throughout the day. He even mentioned that he realized it meant some days he would have a horrible day but he felt the days he was on made it worth it. I see nothing wrong with his approach. If that's the way someone wants to play it makes no difference to me.

Makes no difference to me as well. I can happily wait on my own fairway or some other fairway.

 

13 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

I don't see much of a correlation between how hard I swing with a driver and how accurate I am.  I actually might be a bit more accurate when I swing hard. So, I might as well swing hard. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, dkolo said:

Reminds me of the old baseball saying, "swing hard in case you hit it."

Makes no difference to me neither.

[dkolo]

4 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Makes no difference to me as well. I can happily wait on my own fairway or some other fairway.

 

 

Makes no difference to me neither.

For me, trying to swing harder tends to bring the big banana ball into play, so I'm more likely to take a more aggressive line or try to cut a corner when I'm trying to get more "distance."

[Lihu]

9 minutes ago, dkolo said:

For me, trying to swing harder tends to bring the big banana ball into play, so I'm more likely to take a more aggressive line or try to cut a corner when I'm trying to get more "distance."

For me, it really makes no difference if I am swinging "slowly" or "fast". I never swing with more than what feels like 80% effort anyway, but that banana ball comes into play sporadically. Sometimes the banana is straighter sometimes a bit more curvy. I try to "fix" my path to get rid of it. Of course, I'm probably doing squat or next to nothing, but sometimes I get that "power fade" or draw depending upon my setup, grip or whatever. . .

80% down to 60% effort is not going to do a lot to improve my drives. Most of the time there's no actual difference. I hit roughly 50% FW with driver so I'm not that horrible. The other 50% are usually not so bad that I need to change my "distance monkey" ways. . .

[Dave2512]

Anyone shooting 112 or whatever knows they are hitting it all over the course. The problem we have as golfers, and even better golfers are guilty of this, we always try to hit our best shot.

I really didn't start playing better golf until my expected result wasn't my best shot but something a little better than my worst. It allows me to play the course not just hit ball and chase wherever it goes. I had to become a pessimistic golfer to get some control over my ball. I don't think people chase distance as much as they don't realize how bad they really are.

[Lihu]

12 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

Anyone shooting 112 or whatever knows they are hitting it all over the course. The problem we have as golfers, and even better golfers are guilty of this, we always try to hit our best shot.

I really didn't start playing better golf until my expected result wasn't my best shot but something a little better than my worst. It allows me to play the course not just hit ball and chase wherever it goes. I had to become a pessimistic golfer to get some control over my ball. I don't think people chase distance as much as they don't realize how bad they really are.

Agree, I've been in situations where I just don't "feel like" hitting a club to distance and club up anyway. Even so, it's rare for me to over hit a pin or green. Yesterday, I hit an 8i 140 yards that hit the side of the green side bunker and bounced to the other green side bunker slope and settled about 5 feet from the pin. Also, on a 165 yard tee box I hit a 6i just short of another par 3 green. On the other side of the coin that rarely lands up, I was planning on laying up on a longer par 3 and ended up carrying a 5i 190+ yards landing 6 feet past the pin and rolling another 3 feet. This type of thing happens about once every 6 rounds or so.

It's all about feel for me, and usually that feeling says for me to "take more club".

[9wood]

I see many distance monkeys on the golf course, and they are normally playing in front of me slowing me down because 1) they are hunting for their ball in the woods 2) hunting for their ball in the high grass or weeds 3) taking their 2nd shot from the opposite fairway, only to hit some tree limbs without getting back onto the correct fairway 4) taking their 3rd shot, still trying to get back on the fairway and end up with a long ways to still go to reach the green.

[Dave2512]

25 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Even so, it's rare for me to over hit a pin or green.

I know from my Game Golf stats my most prominent miss is short. It's not even close. And that's being conservative with club selection. Honestly I can live with a long miss. It's not just long it's a well struck shot that travels in the intended direction.

 

[GolfLug]

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2015‎ ‎2‎:‎33‎:‎59‎, bones75 said:

I have a friend who got into golf late in life (mid thirties).  It's been 5 years now and he plays 50-100 rounds a year.  Can count the number of times he's broken 100 on one hand.

His form is good enough to be shooting regularly in the nineties, but dude just want's to friggin' massacre the ball every time he swings (driver to wedge). I tell him if he swings 75%, he won't be making quad+ bogeys 6+ times a round, but he's just drunk on distance (and he ain't even long!).  Every time he hits a good shot, he breaks out his phone app to measure it. One time in the last five years, on a rock hard and dry fairway, downhill AND down wind... he hit one 260.  So now he thinks he's "got 260 in his bag". Dude carries his driver less than 200 yards, but won't give up his stiff shaft...  again, cuz "he's got 260 in his bag".

We'll play in a group, and someone will beat him (literally) by 30 strokes on any given day, but on one hole he'll hit his 5 iron into a green (with 50 yards of roll) while that other person hit a 5-wood and came up short.  His swing is totally out of control, but he walks off the tee thinking he's finally got it figured out.  I don't mind him thinking he's got game, but I think he's a goddamn idiot and his attitude is killing his game.  I usually just let him do his thing, but sometimes I just get frustrated when he gets all huffy on why he just shot a 112.

And I'm not just talking about my friend.  But Distance Monkeys (as i call them) drive me batty sometime.  They'll need two mulligans off the tee cuz they're swinging so damned hard that they either whiff or go 75 yards OB, but then they'll hit an (admittedly) great shot and "par" out from there (i.e. a quad).  And they think that's how they're supposed to play the hole.  Basically they're turning every single shot into a low percentage shot.  Like a boxer with nothing but haymakers in his arsenal.

Distance Monkey's DO NOT APPLY TO: (i) good golfers and (ii) golfers who don't give a rat's ass about their score.  If you can swing hard but you're in control and in play, you're not a distance monkey... and if you're on the course to just get your frustrations out about your wife by destroying balls, then you're not a distance monkey.  

Distance Monkey's DO APPLY TO: both "low scoring" and high scoring golfers. I use quotes for "low scoring" golfers to apply to you Monkeys who can carry the ball 260, but half of them are lost, OB, or are a 100 yard grounder.  Do the math, Monkey... if you've got 6 stroke and distance penalties every round (whether you admit it or not), then you're not shooting low eighties.

So basically if you're swinging as hard as you can every shot but are hitting them all over the map, and..

  .... if you are really focused on improving your game, or
  .... if you play for money and want to win (even if it's just a friendly nassau with friends), or
  .... if you complain about your crappy ass scores cuz you "know" you're a way better golfer than your scorecard shows..

... then chances are you're a Distance Monkey and you need to get your head checked if you really want to improve...  and like my good friend, you may spend 5 years of swinging out of your boots just to break 100 once out of every 75 rounds.  Hey, we all need better course management skills, and I'm not saying you can't get good form/game by swinging hard, but there's thousands (millions?) of you overly-grunting Monkeys out there that are just too, too much.

Forgive the rant, but my friend just shot a 112 and is just puzzled.. and I'm here thinking that 13 of the penalty strokes I just saw him pick up were totally avoidable.  I'm not saying I'm a good golfer either, but with my head and my friend's swing, I wouldn't be shooting over 100 very often imho.

 

 

It is entirely possible that he might not do much better even if his shoes stayed on his feet.  

As far as his game and attitude getting to you... golf certainly has a social aspect (as any other sport/game) but two golfers riding on the same cart often exist on two different planets as far as their game goes. Not unique. As the prayer goes, hope you find the strength to endure. You can always get on here time to time and rant away like above for some relief for yourself and some entertainment for us.

[Lihu]

41 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

I know from my Game Golf stats my most prominent miss is short. It's not even close. And that's being conservative with club selection. Honestly I can live with a long miss. It's not just long it's a well struck shot that travels in the intended direction.

Yes, this is why we're not scratch or low singles. . .

[billchao]

49 minutes ago, Lihu said:

It's all about feel for me, and usually that feeling says for me to "take more club".

I've gotten out of this habit, myself. I don't want to hit a good shot and airmail the green any more than I want to hit a poor shot and be short, but most holes I play have more trouble behind the green than in front of it. For a while, I was taking extra club on all my approach shots, allowing for a miss short, but then it just ended up turning well struck shots into "misses". I'm a lot better at Game Planning with my Shot Zones than I used to be.

Judging by my Game Golf results, I have a pretty good handle on centering my Shot Zones on the center of the green, but they're just far too large to shoot low scores consistently.

48 minutes ago, 9wood said:

I see many distance monkeys on the golf course, and they are normally playing in front of me slowing me down because 1) they are hunting for their ball in the woods 2) hunting for their ball in the high grass or weeds 3) taking their 2nd shot from the opposite fairway, only to hit some tree limbs without getting back onto the correct fairway 4) taking their 3rd shot, still trying to get back on the fairway and end up with a long ways to still go to reach the green.

Maybe they're just not good golfers, and not "distance monkeys" or whatever. Sorry not everybody is good enough to play at the pace you'd like to play at, I guess.

---

My take on this:

1. Golfers who look like they're swinging out of their shoes and blasting the ball all over the place have poor mechanics that have little to do with how hard they're swinging. It's poor sequencing that makes their swings look like it takes a lot of effort. A guy with a bad swing that happens to have a faster swing speed is going to hit poor shots. It's not much different than the guy who sprays the ball all over the place who can't hit it out of his shadow, only they're not hitting the ball OB all the time because they just don't swing that fast.
2. You just can't "swing slower" and hit better shots. A poor swing done slower is still going to result in a poor shot.
3. In the same vein, you can't just tell someone to stop hitting their driver and they'll play better. It's a swing issue, not a club selection or course management issue. If the guy is topping the ball and dribbling it 30 yards off the tee, putting a 5i in his hand is probably going to result in the same top. At least when they do connect with it, a good driver will be 50 yards farther than a good 5i. I don't buy into the idea that better course management will turn a guy shooting 112 into a guy that shoots sub-100.

[Lihu]

Just now, billchao said:

I've gotten out of this habit, myself. I don't want to hit a good shot and airmail the green any more than I want to hit a poor shot and be short, but most holes I play have more trouble behind the green than in front of it. For a while, I was taking extra club on all my approach shots, allowing for a miss short, but then it just ended up turning well struck shots into "misses". I'm a lot better at Game Planning with my Shot Zones than I used to be.

Maybe or maybe not, but I rarely hit past the pin. 90% of my GIR are short or pin high. Of the other 10%, I either hit over the green or past the pin because I hit thin or something stupid like that. . .

[billchao]

1 minute ago, Lihu said:

Maybe or maybe not, but I rarely hit past the pin. 90% of my GIR are short or pin high. Of the other 10%, I either hit over the green or past the pin because I hit thin or something stupid like that. . .

I don't doubt your observations, but you should get yourself a Game Golf! I'm honestly surprised you don't have one already.

[Lihu]

26 minutes ago, billchao said:

I don't doubt your observations, but you should get yourself a Game Golf! I'm honestly surprised you don't have one already.

 

If I'm on the green, I can tell how far I need to putt. I rarely putt from behind the pin. Easy observation, and I don't really need an expensive piece of SW and $10 worth (being generous) of NFC tags to tell me that.

I tried the GG system three times already (last time was only 2 weeks ago), unsuccessfully, and to be perfectly honest I've already gotten to a 10HC without it.

[DrvFrShow]

I can say for a fact that my longest drives were in my own fairway or in my own rough with the next shot definitely playable. My misses were short where I didn't swing with abandon.

When I put the "extra heat" on the drives, my hips don't stall, the clubhead squares better to my target line and I stay behind the ball better and make solid contact. You can see it in the ball flight.... and in my game golf data. Those drives are all over 230. The drives I did not put "extra heat" on are all under 220 and usually not in good position.

However, if I'm making solid contact and slicing the driver badly on the course, it's another problem that's not going to resolve itself - it needs to be worked on at the driving range or with an instructor. If I'm hitting my irons well, I just might hit my 4 iron off the tee and put it in the middle of the fairway, sacrifice the 30 yds and the S&D penalty and just deal with hitting a 7 iron into the green instead of a PW (had I hit the driver straight).

[bones75]

I guess I'm biased about my own swing development and perhaps too harsh on my friend.  I'm like some of you where if I swing hard the ball goes nowhere.  The following statement is 100% true:  On days where only swing thought is "dont' swing hard, just swing in form" I'm at my longest.  I usually carry 220-230.  But on a few days this year where I was just 100% focused on my form, I was carrying 240+, with a few crushings of the ball (for me) at 260 carry.  Incidentally, I'm also straight as an arrow those days.

So for me I always thought swing form yields distance.  And my good friend loses all his form when he swings hard.

Edited December 8, 2015 by bones75

[billchao]

8 hours ago, bones75 said:

I guess I'm biased about my own swing development and perhaps too harsh on my friend.  I'm like some of you where if I swing hard the ball goes nowhere.  The following statement is 100% true:  On days where only swing thought is "dont' swing hard, just swing in form" I'm at my longest.  I usually carry 220-230.  But on a few days this year where I was just 100% focused on my form, I was carrying 240+, with a few crushings of the ball (for me) at 260 carry.  Incidentally, I'm also straight as an arrow those days.

So for me I always thought swing form yields distance.  And my good friend loses all his form when he swings hard.

Yea I think that's the problem. Your friend is not you, your feels don't work for him, etc. You probably have better mechanics to start with and swinging "easy" for you cleans up a few things and allows you to swing with better form.

From what you described, your friend probably doesn't have a good swing to begin with and swinging "easier" for him probably won't help as much as you think it does.