Hit it Over the Ditch or Lay up Short?

[vangator]

6 hours ago, vangator said:

I shoot the ditch if the carry was too great.  Laying up presents a long approach.

I play a course with a somewhat similar hole.  Ditch is 240 from the tee with 20 yard carry uphill.  Trouble on both side of the fairway if you clear.  So, this requires a tee shot with 260 carry and accurate.  The hole is only 360 yards though. 

When I was a lad, I'd drive the ditch all the time, once within 30 yards.  Now I typically lay up with an iron and hit an 8 iron in.

If the tee is up so that the carry id only 245 or so, I go for it, but that extra 15 yards or so is right in that zone I don't like to mess with especially on a 360 yard hole.  The hole was obviously designed as a layup.  The back tees requires over 300 yards to carry ditch.  That's not part of my game.

Meant to say "I'd shoot the ditch if the carry was NOT too great."  Big difference.

I also agree with someone else that said this is not a typical birdie hole.  For any par 4 that has a 4 as the first digit, I'm happy with par.

4 hours ago, 9wood said:

Since this will be the first year that I carry a driver in my bag then I will have to wait until the course opens to find out. I just purchased a new Cobra Flyz adjustable driver. My old driver was a Ping G2, but I didn't use it. Nevertheless, my 3 wood put me 10 yards short after the roll. I'm thinking my driver might carry into the ditch. Time will tell.

If your 3W rolls 10 yards short, my guess is that you probably can't carry that ditch with a driver.  A lot of times the extra distance with a driver is due to roll.

Plus, I think a high spin ball would probably carry better downwind.  That's what I always though anyway.  I'd hit a Pinnacle or some other distance ball that I didn't care if I lost.

Edited March 3, 2016 by vangator

[Lihu]

5 hours ago, 9wood said:

It just so happens that this hole only has one tee box

Don't you just hate that?

 

[Scotsclaff]

I would have to lay up.

[mcanadiens]

I play this hole frequently. It's No. 3 on Kittyhawk Eagle Course.

Fact of the matter is that this particular ditch lies at the average carry distance of my driver. It would take a 90th percentile shot or better to clear it. If the score means anything at all, I lay up. Otherwise i go for it.

 

[Fourputt]

8 hours ago, 9wood said:

I think this might be interesting. Here's a scenario. You're about to tee off on a 412 yd. par 4 hole and you would really like a birdie, yet you will settle for par if you have to. You know if you get off a really good tee shot that your chances of scoring well just increased. Between 220 and 230 yards out there is drainage ditch that runs all the way across the fairway and beyond. So here's the question. Would you try to drive across the ditch, or hit short of the ditch and be left with about 200 yds still to go for your second shot?

I lay up because only me very best let it all hang out drove will carry 220 these days.  Easy decision for me.

[saevel25]

51 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

I play this hole frequently. It's No. 3 on Kittyhawk Eagle Course.

Fact of the matter is that this particular ditch lies at the average carry distance of my driver. It would take a 90th percentile shot or better to clear it. If the score means anything at all, I lay up. Otherwise i go for it.

 

A good 3-5 yard wide creek that sits 210-220 yards out sucks on a 400+ yard hole for most golfers. 

[Fourputt]

27 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

A good 3-5 yard wide creek that sits 210-220 yards out sucks on a 400+ yard hole for most golfers. 

Amen!  It basically makes it a short par 5 for me.

[jsgolfer]

9 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

I play this hole frequently. It's No. 3 on Kittyhawk Eagle Course.

Fact of the matter is that this particular ditch lies at the average carry distance of my driver. It would take a 90th percentile shot or better to clear it. If the score means anything at all, I lay up. Otherwise i go for it.

 

Is this the same hole that 9wood was talking about? The course yardage for this hole is 419 from the blue tees and 375 from the red tees, according to score card.    If this is the same hole, the 10'x10' tee just doesn't seem correct?  It looks like an interesting hole, it's about a 220 yd carry from the middle of the tee.  Man they crammed a lot of courses (3) into this area.  Are there golf balls flying all over the place when you play?  Or is there more room than it looks like from an aerial view.

.  

[saevel25]

56 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

Is this the same hole that 9wood was talking about?

Nope, just similar example though.

[bkuehn1952]

8 hours ago, saevel25 said:

A good 3-5 yard wide creek that sits 210-220 yards out sucks on a 400+ yard hole for most golfers. 

Yes, and I question the design when this occurs frequently.  The hazard placement punishes we shorter hitters on a hole where we are already going to struggle a bit.  The darn thing is 415 or so yards already.  If this hole is the only one like it on the course, then I can accept the punishment and work hard to make par or bogey.  If the course is going to present me with multiple examples of this type of issue, they don't have to worry about me playing there.

[jsgolfer]

2 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Nope, just similar example thought.

That hole looks like it would eat a lot of golf balls

[RussUK]

Depends on a)how confident im feeling and b) how important the round is.

I can get my driver to about 250 at the moment if im on it, so if im "in the zone" and im playing for fun then sure let the big dog bark.

If im having a crappy day then its  hybrid off the tee all day long!

[Lihu]

13 hours ago, 9wood said:

13 hours ago, jsgolfer said:

That's a very odd tee. I don't believe I've ever seen that. Did the same person design the tee that designed the gimmicky green?

No

I've never seen any hole like that either, but I've only been on about 40 or so odd courses (I might ask some of my playing partners who've been on many more if they've seen a hole like this one). No matter what, 412 yards is not a birdie hole for me anyway.

 

Quote

13 hours ago, SavvySwede said:

So the entire tee box is 10'×10'? Is there any grass on it?

Yes

If everyone is laying up on this hole, I seriously doubt there is any grass left on it.

[mcanadiens]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

1 hour ago, jsgolfer said:

Is this the same hole that 9wood was talking about?

Nope, just similar example thought.

That's the one I was talking about (not 9wood). I'm a bit of a light hitter honestly, so this one just sets up badly for me. What the picture doesn't show you is how the floor slopes up towards the fence line along the left-hand side, so if the right water hazard intimidates you, forget about an even lie. I'll take bogey on this hole all day long. 

There actually is a fair bit of room,  but Kittyhawk is a muni and it tends to get packed in the middle of the summer with a lot of people that are hackers like me. You are always well advised to stay alert. 

[saevel25]

34 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

That's the one I was talking about (not 9wood). I'm a bit of a light hitter honestly, so this one just sets up badly for me. What the picture doesn't show you is how the floor slopes up towards the fence line along the left-hand side, so if the right water hazard intimidates you, forget about an even lie. I'll take bogey on this hole all day long.

For most people who can not clear that creek comfortably the hole really plays over 4.5 strokes on average. That doesn't include hitting the ball into the water.

 

 

[9wood]

1 hour ago, jsgolfer said:

Is this the same hole that 9wood was talking about? 

.  

No that is not it. Actually I checked the distance out more carefully and the ditch is out approximately 240 yards from the tee box. If anyone wants to see the hole it's the 3rd hole at Niagara County Golf course

[9wood]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

If everyone is laying up on this hole, I seriously doubt there is any grass left on it.

I never said everyone is laying up on this hole. And yes the grass in the tee off area is plenty. More accurately, the ditch is 240 yds out, not the 230 which I stated earlier based on my best guess. Secondly, I personally have never seen anyone drive across the ditch. I'm not saying no one has, or that no one can't, only that I personally have never seen anyone do it. I have seen people drive into the ditch however. I have always teed off using my 3 wood and I end up out about 210 - 220 yds which is short of the ditch. That leaves me with 192 -202 still to go which is a tough shot off the turf for me. Maybe I'll do better this year because I just added a new driver and a new hybrid to my bag. 

19 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

For most people who can not clear that creek comfortably the hole really plays over 4.5 strokes on average. That doesn't include hitting the ball into the water.

 

 

Normally, I get on in three which leaves me an opportunity for par. However, this is the year I'm determined to get on in two.

[Lihu]

18 minutes ago, 9wood said:

No that is not it. Actually I checked the distance out more carefully and the ditch is out approximately 240 yards from the tee box. If anyone wants to see the hole it's the 3rd hole at Niagara County Golf course

412 yards with a roughly 245 forced carry and one tee box is kind of an unrealistic hole for most golfers. Unless you average 260+ off the tee, it's going to be risky. At least a layup does not leave you with the 200 yard approach shot you stated earlier. Most bogey golfers have a decent chance to get near the green from 180 yards.