Obama - Winner or Loser

[Golfingdad]

2 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

Many of the reasons were already mentioned. But I'll toss in a few things. I've seen some adverse effects at work due to the ACA, people had their hours cut because we could not afford to add insurance coverage to people who were part time but worked over 29.5 hours but less than 40. My friend was dropped from his wife's insurance, his employer did not have insurance because they didn't have to due to their business size. The ACA package that he was offered cost too much per month and had a $5000 deductible. All this happened during a health scare when this happened the doctor thought he might have cancer. So, because of ACA they had to use up all their savings which lead to more stress in an already bad situation. Just some things I've seen, personally, that taint my overall view of this Presidency. I don't think he's been a horrible President really, I just don't think he did anything to be considered a good one.

Why was your friend dropped from his wife's insurance?

[Jeremie Boop]

Just now, Golfingdad said:

Why was your friend dropped from his wife's insurance?

I'm not sure exactly how it all happened. I just know that he was dropped from her insurance and his employer did not have to offer insurance due to how few employees it had. I wish I had more specifics on the whole thing, but I don't. He basically said that they explained to him it was due to the ACA. My dad's employer doesn't have to offer insurance either, but luckily he gets insurance through VA because he wouldn't be able to afford coverage through the ACA either. I know this because he didn't realize he qualified for VA insurance and had looked into the plans and told us he couldn't afford them. We convinced him to contact VA and he got coverage that way.

[14ledo81]

My biggest gripe with Obama is the ACA.  Obama (and most Dems) talk about how the middle class is shrinking.  As far as I can see (from where I stand anyway), the ACA actually hurt the middle class.  

Like (some) others have said, I pay more for health care now than I did before.  I consider myself "middle class".  Having to pay more for a worse product just pushes me closer to poverty levels.

As far as the guns, I have heard (from gun stores) that Obama has been excellent for gun sales.............  

[Golfingdad]

6 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

I'm not sure exactly how it all happened. I just know that he was dropped from her insurance and his employer did not have to offer insurance due to how few employees it had. I wish I had more specifics on the whole thing, but I don't. He basically said that they explained to him it was due to the ACA. My dad's employer doesn't have to offer insurance either, but luckily he gets insurance through VA because he wouldn't be able to afford coverage through the ACA either. I know this because he didn't realize he qualified for VA insurance and had looked into the plans and told us he couldn't afford them. We convinced him to contact VA and he got coverage that way.

That's what I was getting at.  If his employer is exempt from offering insurance now, I'm pretty sure he didn't have to offer it before ACA either.  So unless him getting dropped from his wifes insurance was directly ACA related, then his problems wouldn't have been any different without ACA.  Either way, it sucks that he wasn't helped by it.

[freshmanUTA]

The unemployment rate tht is advertised doesn't include people who stopped looking for jobs period, only people who are still looking. If you include the true number of unemployment with and without people who are looking, the number hasn't changed much over the last 8 years. actually more like the last 12.

My parents have to pay nearly 1200 more each year for each of their health care plans. On top of a 4,000 deductible.

 

Overall not a good job done, but definitely not the worst by any means.

[boogielicious]

38 minutes ago, freshmanUTA said:

The unemployment rate tht is advertised doesn't include people who stopped looking for jobs period, only people who are still looking. If you include the true number of unemployment with and without people who are looking, the number hasn't changed much over the last 8 years. actually more like the last 12.

My parents have to pay nearly 1200 more each year for each of their health care plans. On top of a 4,000 deductible.

 

Overall not a good job done, but definitely not the worst by any means.

The unemployment rate is calculated the same way as it has been for a long time. So the index is relative. 

The pre-existing condition clause and having your kids on until 26 are two huge accomplishments. That has helped a lot. Costs for all insurance need to come down, but that will take both sides to work together. Pharma prices are a key issue and Medicare cannot even negotiate prices with the current laws  

I don't think the GOP can be solely blamed for the mess Obama inherited. There were tons of factors involving many administrations and congresses and foreign factors. But they steadfast refused to work at all with this administration from the outset  the "one-term president" objective was pathetic. The Tea Party and bigotry are as much to blame for some of the perception of his effectiveness as anything else. Congress certainly should shoulder the criticism levied at them for doing nothing for 6 years  

I don't want our troops permanently engaged in war, which he has moved toward. I want our allies to pony up for a change, which is happening. So I see that as a positive. I am very happy that my gay friends can marry too. I hate discrimination of any kind and that was exactly that. Establishing relations with Cuba is a good change.

He has shown tremendous poise and calm during his time. That is what a president should do. Do I wish more was accomplished? Yes. But that takes all of government, not just one man or woman. 

[9wood]

Obama is fine if you like Communism

[Golfingdad]

22 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

The unemployment rate is calculated the same way as it has been for a long time. So the index is relative. 

The pre-existing condition clause and having your kids on until 26 are two huge accomplishments. That has helped a lot. Costs for all insurance need to come down, but that will take both sides to work together. Pharma prices are a key issue and Medicare cannot even negotiate prices with the current laws  

I don't think the GOP can be solely blamed for the mess Obama inherited. There were tons of factors involving many administrations and congresses and foreign factors. But they steadfast refused to work at all with this administration from the outset  the "one-term president" objective was pathetic. The Tea Party and bigotry are as much to blame for some of the perception of his effectiveness as anything else. Congress certainly should shoulder the criticism levied at them for doing nothing for 6 years  

I don't want our troops permanently engaged in war, which he has moved toward. I want our allies to pony up for a change, which is happening. So I see that as a positive. I am very happy that my gay friends can marry too. I hate discrimination of any kind and that was exactly that. Establishing relations with Cuba is a good change.

He has shown tremendous poise and calm during his time. That is what a president should do. Do I wish more was accomplished? Yes. But that takes all of government, not just one man or woman. 

Your pragmatism is unwelcome here.  Please take it outside. 

[Wally Fairway]

I voted no - because of:
a) economic improvements were made via borrowing more money - debt levels are at an all time high, not the deficit (and accounting gimmick)
b) his words "ISIS is the junior varsity", and we treated them as such and look where we are today
c) pulling troops out of Iraq & Afghanistan too early and with year long + notice, so the Taliban, al Queda (and others) could just wait for the US military to leave
d) ACA, forced me to pay more for lower benefits. I realize some are now covered who were not, but I think many of those were not covered by choice.

I do agree with health care coverage for pre-existing conditions (with some caveats), I do think he should nominate a Supreme and that Congress should act on the nomination (we don't vote for people to sit it out). I'm not happy with some of his diplomatic decisions - unilaterally restarting relations with Cuba, and getting nothing in return as far as political prisoners, free press, etc.

Many of his points of inaction (guns, oil pipeline) are just long standing blue v red standoffs and are more a product what the system has become. I don't fault him for the system, but he hasn't provided any leadership to move forward from where we are.

The saddest thing is that we are likely left with a decision to vote for the lessor of two bad candidates this fall; maybe the worst slate of choices in my voting lifetime.

[JonMA1]

Even though I didn't vote for the man in either election, I don't think he's been that bad of a president. I simply disagree with some of his principles with the understanding that he's a helluva lot smarter than I am.

The healthcare industry sucked before ObamaCare and it still sucks. I'll give him credit for at least trying to do something.

I don't think his foreign policy was anything to write home about, but again, I'm uninformed. They found Bin Laden on his watch, so he's got that going for him.

The trouble I have in trying to evaluate a President's performance is that it's not that easy finding sources which aren't biased.  

As far as him "inheriting" a mess, I've never liked that way of thinking. First, he didn't inherit anything, he applied for the job. Second, as a member of congress it can be argued that he had some responsibility for whatever shape the country was in when he was inaugurated. I think that the economy is cyclical. It may matter less than we think who is president when the economy is strong or when it is weak. 

In the end, democrats will think he's a saint, and republicans will think he's the devil. And just like every president before him, he is neither. We all love to accept the statistics that support our "guy" and dismiss those that do not. Nothing new there.

As much as I disagree with many of his beliefs on what's best for our country, I'd prefer him over either of the ass-clowns that are currently leading the primaries.

[Golfingdad]

4 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

Even though I didn't vote for the man in either election, I don't think he's been that bad of a president. I simply disagree with some of his principles with the understanding that he's a helluva lot smarter than I am.

The healthcare industry sucked before ObamaCare and it still sucks. I'll give him credit for at least trying to do something.

I don't think his foreign policy was anything to write home about, but again, I'm uninformed. They found Bin Laden on his watch, so he's got that going for him.

The trouble I have in trying to evaluate a President's performance is that it's not that easy finding sources which aren't biased.  

As far as him "inheriting" a mess, I've never liked that way of thinking. First, he didn't inherit anything, he applied for the job. Second, as a member of congress it can be argued that he had some responsibility for whatever shape the country was in when he was inaugurated. I think that the economy is cyclical. It may matter less than we think who is president when the economy is strong or when it is weak. 

In the end, democrats will think he's a saint, and republicans will think he's the devil. And just like every president before him, he is neither. We all love to accept the statistics that support our "guy" and dismiss those that do not. Nothing new there.

As much as I disagree with many of his beliefs on what's best for our country, I'd prefer him over either of the ass-clowns that are currently leading the primaries.

This is a good post as well.

[SnazzyJeff]

3 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

I don't see redneck stupidity in your post. You never claimed he was coming to steal your guns or that he is a Muslim sleeper agent with a hidden agenda!

Despite what @Gunther may "think", I'm not looking to vilify the other side of the debate, I'm just interested to actually hear what the other side of the debate is. Far too often I hear, "Obama has been a disaster 'nuff said..." Just take a look at post #10 to see what I mean...

From the outside looking in, it seems like Obama gets none of the credit for anything good that has happened during his term and all of the blame for anything bad that happens during his time in office.

What about these numbers? Are they not accurate? It seems like he inherited a pile of shit from the GOP and has slowly turned the tides. But I found this on the internet so maybe it's not at all accurate.

Anyway, I don't have a dog in this fight, I just think Obama is pretty fly and don't really get the hatred (not saying that about you specifically @saevel25).

The stats I see being put forth all seem to indicate that he has done a great job as POTUS, particularly when you factor in the mess that he had to start with. By contrast, the stats that support the "Obama was bad" narrative are all anecdotal, non-existent or ridiculous. Which is why I created this thread, I want to hear some points from people that aren't stupid rednecks and I don't consider you (or @David in FL, @newtogolf, @patches) to be stupid or a redneck.  

 

statistics were born to be manipulated and no oddly foes it better than Obama...a few more months and the pos is gone for good.

[boogielicious]

1 hour ago, SnazzyJeff said:

statistics were born to be manipulated and no oddly foes it better than Obama...a few more months and the pos is gone for good.

Welcome to the forum. Try posting in some of the golf threads. This post wasn't your best effort. 

[Ernest Jones]

1 hour ago, SnazzyJeff said:

statistics were born to be manipulated and no oddly foes it better than Obama...a few more months and the pos is gone for good.

You forgot "n'uff said" :smh:

[ghalfaire]

I voted he was not a good president, but he isn't the worst I've see either.  But he made some promises in 2007 campaign and he didn't keep many.  He promised a council of rivals for a cabinet, they are not.  He promised the most "open" administration ever, it isn't and in fact is more secretive than Nixon was.  

He also made some promises as president he didn't keep either.  He said I could keep my doctor, I couldn't.  While unemployment is down the jobs are mostly service jobs and average income is down too.  If you work with your hands in the USA you are forgotten by this administration.  He has overstepped his authority in several cases and refuses to enforce the immigration laws.  

But my biggest problem with Obama is he is a poor manage and doesn't know how to work with people who disagree with him.  Most of our "good" presidents make personal connections with leading congress members of the opposite party so some sort of foundation could be forged to work together.  But he has never even tried this.  I know some will say the Republicans would not "have a beer" with the president, but I don't see where he ever tried.  The ACA (Obamacare) was passed without a single Republican vote and not a single Republican idea.  So it was up to him to set the tone and this did and we are still suffering with a non functioning Government and I think it was President Obama that sent the message "it's either my way or the highway" when the ACA was passed.  

[newtogolf]

I voted "No".  The current US economy reminds me of the joke about the guy who picks up a hot girl in the bar and she takes him home for a wild night.  When she gets home, she takes off and places her fake eye lashes, fake colored contact lenses, wig, dentures, bra inserts on the dresser then unstraps her fake leg, leans it on the dresser then hops into bed.  After a minute, she asks the guy what's he's waiting for.  He says I'd don't know if I want to sleep with you or your dresser.  

The economy is not as great as it looks.  Qualitative Easing  (printing money with no basis) has kept us out of a recession / depression temporarily but has also created bubbles that will eventually burst.  The stock market will at some point adjust to more realistic PE Ratios.  Student loans and longer term car loans will be the new crisis the banks will face, though they have barely recovered from the mortgage crisis.  When negative interest rates hit, pension plans, peoples saving and 401K plans will all be at risk.

Unemployment numbers do not reflect those who are no longer on unemployment or looking for a job.  Some of those people are early retirees but many have just fallen off the cliff.  $15 minimum wage will definitely increase unemployment as businesses will reduce employees to compensate for higher hourly wage.  Despite what Bernie and others say, businesses like McDonalds will not pay a cashier $15 per hour, they will be replaced by kiosks.  

ACA had some good points, pre-existing condition coverage and extending right of parents to cover children under their health care until 26.  The rest of it is doomed financially because the key demographic (18-36) is opting to pay the penalty versus enrolling in ACA.  Insurers participating in ACA are losing money and some like United HealthCare are considering opting out.  http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/02/news/economy/obamacare-insurers/

Terrorism is on the rise while Obama refuses to even acknowledge ISIS.  Our relations with North Korea, Israel and Russia are more strained than they have been in a few decades.  The Middle East is still a disaster (partially due to GW) 

Nothing has been done with the millions of illegal aliens already in the United States, nor has anything been done to slow them down.  While Trumps wall might sound stupid, it's the exact solution Hungary opted for to reduce the number of refugees from Serbia entering into Hungary illegally.  

In terms of refugees, France has closed their borders and it won't be long before Germany and Sweden close theirs, meanwhile we are on the hook for at least 10,000 not including the ones entering daily illegally.  

Our education systems have declined under Obama and race relations imo are worse than when he took office.  

I didn't vote for him in 2008 but liked that he swore to be more transparent.  Instead he's cut more backroom deals, never published the white house visitors log, increased the number of meeting closed to the public and never abandoned "Secret Law" that he highly criticized GW for.  

Is Obama responsible for all of this on his own, of course not but it all happened on his watch. GW was blamed for a lot of things he didn't control but I still consider him a crappy POTUS too.  

[Ernest Jones]

52 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I voted "No".  The current US economy reminds me of the joke about the guy who picks up a hot girl in the bar and she takes him home for a wild night.  When she gets home, she takes off and places her fake eye lashes, fake colored contact lenses, wig, dentures, bra inserts on the dresser then unstraps her fake leg, leans it on the dresser then hops into bed.  After a minute, she asks the guy what's he's waiting for.  He says I'd don't know if I want to sleep with you or your dresser.  

The economy is not as great as it looks.  Qualitative Easing  (printing money with no basis) has kept us out of a recession / depression temporarily but has also created bubbles that will eventually burst.  The stock market will at some point adjust to more realistic PE Ratios.  Student loans and longer term car loans will be the new crisis the banks will face, though they have barely recovered from the mortgage crisis.  When negative interest rates hit, pension plans, peoples saving and 401K plans will all be at risk.

Unemployment numbers do not reflect those who are no longer on unemployment or looking for a job.  Some of those people are early retirees but many have just fallen off the cliff.  $15 minimum wage will definitely increase unemployment as businesses will reduce employees to compensate for higher hourly wage.  Despite what Bernie and others say, businesses like McDonalds will not pay a cashier $15 per hour, they will be replaced by kiosks.  

ACA had some good points, pre-existing condition coverage and extending right of parents to cover children under their health care until 26.  The rest of it is doomed financially because the key demographic (18-36) is opting to pay the penalty versus enrolling in ACA.  Insurers participating in ACA are losing money and some like United HealthCare are considering opting out.  http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/02/news/economy/obamacare-insurers/

Terrorism is on the rise while Obama refuses to even acknowledge ISIS.  Our relations with North Korea, Israel and Russia are more strained than they have been in a few decades.  The Middle East is still a disaster (partially due to GW) 

Nothing has been done with the millions of illegal aliens already in the United States, nor has anything been done to slow them down.  While Trumps wall might sound stupid, it's the exact solution Hungary opted for to reduce the number of refugees from Serbia entering into Hungary illegally.  

In terms of refugees, France has closed their borders and it won't be long before Germany and Sweden close theirs, meanwhile we are on the hook for at least 10,000 not including the ones entering daily illegally.  

Our education systems have declined under Obama and race relations imo are worse than when he took office.  

I didn't vote for him in 2008 but liked that he swore to be more transparent.  Instead he's cut more backroom deals, never published the white house visitors log, increased the number of meeting closed to the public and never abandoned "Secret Law" that he highly criticized GW for.  

Is Obama responsible for all of this on his own, of course not but it all happened on his watch. GW was blamed for a lot of things he didn't control but I still consider him a crappy POTUS too.  

Thank you! That's the kind of reply I was looking for. 

[SnazzyJeff]

8 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Welcome to the forum. Try posting in some of the golf threads. This post wasn't your best effort. 

Hey you allowed the thread and I'll post, that's how it works.