How much hip turn?

[newtogolf]

21 hours ago, iacas said:

Just curious… what was the number?

There were three sample swings, readings were -46, -53, -50.  After working on the K-Vest drill to resolve the over-rotation I took 3 swings and averaged -43.  

[Arthurd561]

@newtogolf What exactly do those numbers mean? Are they degrees your hips are turning? Or something else?

[newtogolf]

17 minutes ago, Arthurd561 said:

@newtogolf What exactly do those numbers mean? Are they degrees your hips are turning? Or something else?

Degrees

[arturo28mx]

What I have read many times is that you do not rotate your hips intentionally, it just happens when you rotate your shoulders.

It took me a while to learn to do it properly. Just make sure your abs are not tight. Be as loose as possible in your hips. Then turn your back towards the target and your hips will follow on their own.

Try this. Stand up fully erect. Your hips nice and loose. Now turn your back towards the target and your hips will follow. Many movements are easier to understand when you do them fully erect, as if the ball were shoulder height.

 

[iacas]

6 hours ago, newtogolf said:

There were three sample swings, readings were -46, -53, -50.  After working on the K-Vest drill to resolve the over-rotation I took 3 swings and averaged -43.  

Yeah, then those were probably a bit high. We tend to see around 30-45 among good players. That said, sometimes we allow more, if the person is more limited in flexibility. Without seeing the video I'd tend to agree that it's probably too much.

3 hours ago, arturo28mx said:

What I have read many times is that you do not rotate your hips intentionally, it just happens when you rotate your shoulders.

That doesn't work for many people. Many need to learn to turn their hips, too.

3 hours ago, arturo28mx said:

It took me a while to learn to do it properly. Just make sure your abs are not tight. Be as loose as possible in your hips. Then turn your back towards the target and your hips will follow on their own.

That may be your feel, but as you said, you didn't turn your hips. We see a lot of people who we teach to actively turn their hips… to increase their shoulder turn.

3 hours ago, arturo28mx said:

Try this. Stand up fully erect. Your hips nice and loose. Now turn your back towards the target and your hips will follow. Many movements are easier to understand when you do them fully erect, as if the ball were shoulder height.

"Loose hips" doesn't work for everyone. That's a feel and while I'm glad it works for you, it doesn't necessarily work for everyone, particularly those trying to restrict their hip turn.

[newtogolf]

7 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yeah, then those were probably a bit high. We tend to see around 30-45 among good players. That said, sometimes we allow more, if the person is more limited in flexibility. Without seeing the video I'd tend to agree that it's probably too much.

That doesn't work for many people. Many need to learn to turn their hips, too..

The Titleist TPI evaluation and K-Vest swing analysis confirmed that I have difficulty separating my hips / pelvis movements from my torso which they believe is partially the cause of the over rotation of my hips.  

I'll still post a video but I appreciate you confirming what I was told so I don't go down a wrong path again.  

[MRugroden]

Being old and decrepit with a bad back and a knee replacement I may have stumbled across some things that will help.  The first one is that playing "golf swing" instead of golf is crap.  All of the advice of restricting the hips to X degrees of turn and the shaft in this position and the face in that position is what is causing the majority of back problems in the PGA and ruining the chances for the majority of us amateurs to enjoy playing good golf..

Remember the occasions when frustration set in and you just hit the ball?  Remember how many of those shots were amazing?  Did you suddenly get all those angles and degrees of turn just right or did you just let your body do what it does naturally?  

Look at the greats like Bobby Jones, Sam Sneed, Byron Nelson, Ben Hogan, Jack Nicklaus, Tom Watson, Ian Woosnam, Bubba Watson, Jim Furyk and others.  How much hip and knee turn do they have?  How did they play?  Tom Watson nearly won the British Open at age 59 and it sure looks like his hips turn a lot.  In my never to be humble opinion modern teaching is causing a lot of damage.  I had an instructor at a Hank Haney school tell me I should quit playing golf if I couldn't resist turning my hips. That causes enough pain to drop me.  

Let me offer an alternative.  The basic fundamentals of golf are consistent.  The grip, stance, ball position  and swing are your keys to better golf.  The question is how do you hit the ball solidly each time you swing.  We'll all settle for 70% of the time.  To start with go to Ron Sisson on Youtube.  This video takes new golfers and teaches them how to hit the ball.  The results are astounding.

 

Then check out Shawn Clement golf on Youtube.  There are dozens of lessons that take the swing a little farther than Ron.  After that, spend some time with a practice mat and a mirror and develop a comfortable, smooth, effortless swing.

 I have done this and can now swing the club pain free.  I've been doing this for about 3 weeks now.  I have to be careful or I'll be laid up for a few days.  I play at least 9 holes 4-6 times per week and I walk the course.  I hit my driver 250 -270 yds and my 9 iron 145 yds. How?  I don't play golf swing.

Let the flaming begin.

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, MRugroden said:

Let the flaming begin.

That won't happen here.

We're big fans of changing the flex in your knees and turning your hips.

[Rainmaker]

3 hours ago, MRugroden said:

To start with go to Ron Sisson on Youtube. 

Thanks for posting that - I had never seen his videos before but just watched his Real Swing series on Youtube.  When I started trying to learn, I spent a lot of time watching Shawn Clement's videos.  It didn't really work for me but I thought it was interesting and there is definitely something to the "intuitive", "target-focused" kind of thinking. 

My kids are age 3 and 5 and they love to "play golf".  They have a little kids iron which they basically just play around with.  When I stood them in front of a ball, they tried to hit the ball with the back of the club, they were jumping around, etc.  Just from looking at the club and the ball, they had no idea what to do. 

So . .I put them in front of a ball, in basic "address" position.  I then put a 5 gallon bucket over the ball and I told them to "whack the bucket".  They gave it a little whack.  "Harder!", I said.  They whacked it harder.  "Even Harder - really whack this bucket!"  . .and then they'd smack the bucket as hard as they could.  I then picked up the bucket, exposing the ball on the mat and said "Whack the bucket!" . . .and SMACK!  They both were instinctively able to hit the ball . .a good little ways,even. 

 

 

[Buckeyebowman]

On 4/7/2016 at 7:21 PM, iacas said:

That won't happen here.

We're big fans of changing the flex in your knees and turning your hips.

Outstanding!

How many times in my life have I heard that high handicap golfers ignore the lower body in their swings! The golf swing is an "athletic" movement! How many athletic movements can you imagine that do not involve the lower body?

As far as I'm concerned, the amount of hip rotation you need is as far as what's necessary to get the maximum amount of shoulder rotation that you can handle.

[mpb1472]

19 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Outstanding!

How many times in my life have I heard that high handicap golfers ignore the lower body in their swings! The golf swing is an "athletic" movement! How many athletic movements can you imagine that do not involve the lower body?

As far as I'm concerned, the amount of hip rotation you need is as far as what's necessary to get the maximum amount of shoulder rotation that you can handle.

I totally agree. When I free up my hips as recommended it allows for a better backswing turn for me and thus improved ball striking and distance.

[Jameson]

Don´t know. Whaat I know it´s that since I am trying to turn more my hips on the backswing, I am not getting good contact. :(

[pecos24]

On 4/13/2016 at 9:52 PM, Buckeyebowman said:

How many times in my life have I heard that high handicap golfers ignore the lower body in their swings! The golf swing is an "athletic" movement! How many athletic movements can you imagine that do not involve the lower body?

This was the exact problem I had, my swing for many years was pretty much all arms. Now I have many other problems to fix but I think I finally got over this one. 

[newtogolf]

3 hours ago, Jameson said:

Don´t know. Whaat I know it´s that since I am trying to turn more my hips on the backswing, I am not getting good contact. :(

Engaging your hips more is likely changing your swing path and where your club bottoms out.  Are you hitting the ball thin or fat, or is it hitting closer to the edge of the club face or heel?  

Before I engaged my hips more, my swing path was outside to in, using my hips properly it is now inside to out.  

[Jameson]

2 hours ago, newtogolf said:

Engaging your hips more is likely changing your swing path and where your club bottoms out.  Are you hitting the ball thin or fat, or is it hitting closer to the edge of the club face or heel?  

Before I engaged my hips more, my swing path was outside to in, using my hips properly it is now inside to out.  

I think is more fat... If I have in mind to not move my hips, I make better contact. But too armsy though...

[iacas]

10 hours ago, Jameson said:

Don´t know. Whaat I know it´s that since I am trying to turn more my hips on the backswing, I am not getting good contact. :(

@Jameson, you've posted here a long time, and at least about 20 or 30 times, people have encouraged you to start a Member Swing thread with video. You never have. Why?

[Jameson]

10 hours ago, iacas said:

@Jameson, you've posted here a long time, and at least about 20 or 30 times, people have encouraged you to start a Member Swing thread with video. You never have. Why?

uh, don´t really know. A bit of shame I think..