Jordan Spieth's Slow Play

[18rounds]

As long as he is playing within the rules I'm fine with it.

I have no problem if they want to adopt a shot clock but they haven't yet so as long as he is within the rules I'm cool. As a fan I thought the Masters was great entertainment again this year.

 

 

[saevel25]

4 minutes ago, 18rounds said:

As long as he is playing within the rules I'm fine with it.

I have no problem if they want to adopt a shot clock but they haven't yet so as long as he is within the rules I'm cool. 

They do have a clock. If you fall behind you are put on a clock. Spieth was put on the clock earlier in the tournament. 

[SavvySwede]

1 hour ago, JimF27 said:

Really? Maybe you should try to play Augusta National and have to hole out every putt. Better yet, have a $1,000 Nassau while you're playing. I'd bet you wouldn't finish in 6 hours.

I'd be done in 3:40 max. Probably much less if they gave me a good caddy.

[18rounds]

44 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

They do have a clock. If you fall behind you are put on a clock. Spieth was put on the clock earlier in the tournament. 

I know he was put on the clock. However, he was not penalized, so he is still playing within the rules.

It is interesting that Day and Spieth are some of this best players in the world but are also some of the most deliberate.

Also, I am not a proponents of slow play in recreational golf, but that is a different subject.

 

[RH31]

11 hours ago, SavvySwede said:

I'd be done in 3:40 max. Probably much less if they gave me a good caddy.

Fair enough. How fast do you think you'd play in a tournament of say 70 peers, with the same pay out as the Masters, including endorsements? Still think you'd zip around the course?

I'm not a proponent of slow play by any means and Spieth's fidgeting is annoying. That said, there are huge implications that can make or break careers in these tournaments. It's easy to say how fast it should be happening when we aren't doing it under their circumstances.

[tdiii]

17 minutes ago, RH31 said:

Fair enough. How fast do you think you'd play in a tournament of say 70 peers, with the same pay out as the Masters, including endorsements? Still think you'd zip around the course?

I'm not a proponent of slow play by any means and Spieth's fidgeting is annoying. That said, there are huge implications that can make or break careers in these tournaments. It's easy to say how fast it should be happening when we aren't doing it under their circumstances.

Anyone who attempts to justify a player who cannot keep up with Bernhard Langer is a proponent of slow play.  Simple as that. 

[Gator Hazard]

1 hour ago, RH31 said:

Fair enough. How fast do you think you'd play in a tournament of say 70 peers, with the same pay out as the Masters, including endorsements? Still think you'd zip around the course?

I'm not a proponent of slow play by any means and Spieth's fidgeting is annoying. That said, there are huge implications that can make or break careers in these tournaments. It's easy to say how fast it should be happening when we aren't doing it under their circumstances.

I think relativity needs to be brought into play here and Spieths time relative to that of his peers is/was slow. How a bogey golfer or even a single digit handicapper would compare is not relevant.  

This comment is also for others and not just specifically a response to yours.  I think it is hilarious for people to be saying things like "if you had X amount of money on the line how long do you think you should take" etc.. A person playing for those sized purses is used to it and makes at a minimum something like 500k a year minimum in order to keep their tour card. It's different for them, and it is their job. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Gator Hazard

[colin007]

what really chaps my ass is when it seems like these pros dont start assessing their shot until the other player has hit, if theyre away.

[tdiii]

I almost through my remote through my brand new UHDTV when, in discussing the 12th hole meltdown, JS said that he wished he'd taken more time over the shot. 

[ppine]

The only way to watch golf is to record some of it, and then skip the slow parts.

The only way to play it is ready golf on a week day.

Jordan is very good at visualizing his shots. He makes multiple practice swings. All of that takes a lot of time and slows down play.  It is fun to watch guys like Lee Trevino now, because they just step up to the ball and hit it.

Jordan got totally over-exposed yesterday.  The commercials had him in the same blue shirt. Enough already.

[tdiii]

Just now, JimF27 said:

Really? Maybe you should try to play Augusta National and have to hole out every putt. Better yet, have a $1,000 Nassau while you're playing. I'd bet you wouldn't finish in 6 hours.

Irrelevant. 

[JimF27]

Quote

I almost through my remote through my brand new UHDTV when, in discussing the 12th hole meltdown, JS said that he wished he'd taken more time over the shot. 

Why? If he had taken a bit more time he might have made a better decision. What's more important, winning The Masters or satisfying some fans who think that fast play is the be all and end all in golf? The fact is that he and his caddy talk over almost every shot. Here he is about to play possibly the most important shot of his life and he rushed it. He should have taken more time and his caddy should have slowed him down.

[SavvySwede]

1 hour ago, RH31 said:

Fair enough. How fast do you think you'd play in a tournament of say 70 peers, with the same pay out as the Masters, including endorsements? Still think you'd zip around the course?

I'm not a proponent of slow play by any means and Spieth's fidgeting is annoying. That said, there are huge implications that can make or break careers in these tournaments. It's easy to say how fast it should be happening when we aren't doing it under their circumstances.

Same time as long as no one in front is holding me up. I wouldn't even know how to spend that much extra time except for just standing there. I already know Aimpoint so I don't have re-read the encyclopedia of Masters history every time I want to know how a putt breaks.

[JimF27]

13 hours ago, SavvySwede said:

I'd be done in 3:40 max. Probably much less if they gave me a good caddy.

I get it. You're a fast player and you take a lot of pride in how fast you can play. Good for you. What I'm saying is that we shouldn't judge people until we've stood in their shoes. I don't know that anyone here has ever played in a major championship let alone led one.  Until you've been in that position, you don't know how you'd respond.

I've played some competitive golf at a fairly high level and I can tell you that it's nothing like playing a $5.00 Nassau with your friends are your club. When you add in the fact that your playing one of the most difficult golf courses in the world with the most difficult greens in the world under extremely stressful conditions everything become more difficult exponentially. 

If people watching this kind of golf take it as a message to allow them to play slowly, they are wrong. It's a very, very different game than what the rest of us play. 

 

[DaveP043]

I too was disappointed in the pace of play, not just at the Masters but at the recent match-play tournament and in many others.  This isn't a new problem, but I'm sure Spieth and Day aren't the only slow players, any more than Jack Nicklaus was back when he was talked about as being slow.  I remember Tiger commonly being a hole or two holes behind as he was winning tournaments.  The problem is only noticed when these guys are a hole or two out of place.  The PGA tour does have policies, with the clock as the final arbiter once a player gets his warning.  If the PGA is serious, they'll actually enforce their own rules, uniformly and consistently, first group Thursday to final group Sunday.  Pace of play will improve, because the players won't want to lose money.  Until the PGA (and the Masters and the USGA and everyone else who runs tournaments) decides to do this, all of our complaining won't do a thing.  If a player can learn to play better, he can learn to play faster too, if he's properly motivated.  I'm not going to slam the slow players, they have no motivation to speed up, and may actually be motivated to slow down, to take more time to make the "right" decision.  Don't blame the players, blame the culture of the tour.   Blame the coaches who talk about shot routine, the sports psychologists who talk about visualization, blame the glamorization of the "player-caddie relationship", and blame the Tour that allows it to continue.

[SavvySwede]

6 minutes ago, JimF27 said:

I get it. You're a fast player and you take a lot of pride in how fast you can play. Good for you. What I'm saying is that we shouldn't judge people until we've stood in their shoes. I don't know that anyone here has ever played in a major championship let alone led one.  Until you've been in that position, you don't know how you'd respond.

I've played some competitive golf at a fairly high level and I can tell you that it's nothing like playing a $5.00 Nassau with your friends are your club. When you add in the fact that your playing one of the most difficult golf courses in the world with the most difficult greens in the world under extremely stressful conditions everything become more difficult exponentially. 

If people watching this kind of golf take it as a message to allow them to play slowly, they are wrong. It's a very, very different game than what the rest of us play. 

 

Nothing like that at all. I simply don't enjoy standing around and have learned that the quality of one's shots will not increase by agonizing over them any longer.

[saevel25]

2 hours ago, RH31 said:

Fair enough. How fast do you think you'd play in a tournament of say 70 peers, with the same pay out as the Masters, including endorsements? Still think you'd zip around the course?

I've played a lot of golf. I find that I have a natural pace to my game. If I was in a two-some with a similar pace as me then we would play a round of 18 easily under 4 hours. 

I do think a lot of time could be cut off at the PGA Tour level. I could understand 4 hours for a two-some. 4 hours and 30 minutes is just mind boggling to me. They are shooting good scores, not hacking it around. 

7 minutes ago, SavvySwede said:

Same time as long as no one in front is holding me up. I wouldn't even know how to spend that much extra time except for just standing there. I already know Aimpoint so I don't have re-read the encyclopedia of Masters history every time I want to know how a putt breaks.

I agree. I would be dead bored on the course if I was in Spieth's pairing. I'd be begging the rules guy to let me have my cell phone so I could play a game or read a book (I have done this one a course before when it's backed up :p)

2 minutes ago, JimF27 said:

I get it. You're a fast player and you take a lot of pride in how fast you can play. Good for you. What I'm saying is that we shouldn't judge people until we've stood in their shoes. I don't know that anyone here has ever played in a major championship let alone led one.  Until you've been in that position, you don't know how you'd respond.

No, I think Spieth is just a slow-ish type player overall. Maybe it's gotten worse since he's become a top player and is contending in Majors routinely. Maybe we are viewing it more now that he's the main guy for golf at the Majors, so he gets more air time.
 

Spoiler

It would take a person 90 minutes to walk that course (at a leisurely 3 ft per second walking pace). Yes I measured the course ;). That leaves them about 180 minutes to hit golf shots. 

Given you have some downtime while the other person is hitting. That is time you can spend getting ready. He's had 2.5 minutes per shot.

The slow play clock is 45 seconds. They took 333% more time than what the PGA Tour has when you put them on the club for slow play. 

Go out to the course and stand in the fairway for 2.5 minutes before hitting your shot. That is an absurdly long time to take a golf shot. 

 

[tdiii]

Just now, JimF27 said:

Why? If he had taken a bit more time he might have made a better decision. What's more important, winning The Masters or satisfying some fans who think that fast play is the be all and end all in golf? The fact is that he and his caddy talk over almost every shot. Here he is about to play possibly the most important shot of his life and he rushed it. He should have taken more time and his caddy should have slowed him down.

Or he might have done the same thing.  That's just silly speculation.  I rewatched last night the Amen corner feed on this.  He and his caddy both agreed on the club and the shot.  Then he hit a poor shot and in a post-round interview admitted that as he stood over the shot he basically changed his mind to play the fade.  So, maybe he should have backed off.  And that would have been one back off among countless. 

It's also entirely possible that if he hadn't futzed around for an interminable period of time and just stepped up and hit his stock draw, he would have ended up pin high and made birdie. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by tdiii