David Ledbetter rant-ish on Michelle Wie criticisms

[iacas]

17 minutes ago, BallStriker said:

Great post.....

I disagree, as I did above.

For anyone to say that Michelle Wie doesn't have talent is bogus as heck. She had tremendous talent. She finished in the top five of every LPGA major when she was a mid-teen… consecutively (T3 2005 British, T3 2006 ANA, T5 2006 LPGA, T3 2006 U.S. Women's Open). She was 15/16 then IIRC.

She won the WAPL at 13, then shot 68 on the PGA Tour.

It astounds me that people are saying (typing) with presumably straight faces that Michelle doesn't have much talent. If she doesn't have much talent, then how can she fall short of expectations and not live up to her billing? For most LPGA Tour players, 4 wins and a major is massively exceeding their talent level.

Annika's comments date back just over three years ago.

Sorenstam apologized, too, not that it means much.

[Ernest Jones]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

I disagree, as I did above.

For anyone to say that Michelle Wie doesn't have talent is bogus as heck. She had tremendous talent. She finished in the top five of every LPGA major when she was a mid-teen… consecutively (T3 2005 British, T3 2006 ANA, T5 2006 LPGA, T3 2006 U.S. Women's Open). She was 15/16 then IIRC.

She won the WAPL at 13, then shot 68 on the PGA Tour.

It astounds me that people are saying (typing) with presumably straight faces that Michelle doesn't have much talent. If she doesn't have much talent, then how can she fall short of expectations and not live up to her billing? For most LPGA Tour players, 4 wins and a major is massively exceeding their talent level.

Annika's comments date back just over three years ago.

Sorenstam apologized, too, not that it means much.

No kidding. I'd rate her as a massive talent. Clearly she could destroy every single poster on this forum. 

[newtogolf]

12 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

I'm no Leadbetter fan (looks too much like an Eric Idle character), but to be fair, the only reason any of these coaches are on PGA Tour Radio is because they are associated with *insert Tour Pro name here*. 

Exactly, that was kind of my point.  Haney would have never gotten Golf Channel shows if he wasn't associated with Tiger.  Leadbetter is the Haney equivalent on the LPGA Tour cashing in on the opportunity to coach Wie and Ko.    

[BallStriker]

10 hours ago, iacas said:

For anyone to say that Michelle Wie doesn't have talent is bogus as heck. 

"Talent" is an elusive term......from a purely physical standpoint, the world is full of players who have all the shots, but not the ability to "get it done" (Ty Tyron, for a loose comparison).  I think there are two different thoughts going on here.....one believing that Led Poision  is to blame.....the other believing that Wiesy doesn't have the six inches between the ears to really get it done.....the truth probably is somewhere in the middle.....and I am of the opinion that Led is far, far less to blame than Michelle

Edited May 1, 2016 by BallStriker

[iacas]

9 hours ago, BallStriker said:

"Talent" is an elusive term......from a purely physical standpoint, the world is full of players who have all the shots, but not the ability to "get it done" (Ty Tyron, for a loose comparison).

Ty Tryon != Michelle Wie

Please.

9 hours ago, BallStriker said:

the other believing that Wiesy doesn't have the six inches between the ears to really get it done.....the truth probably is somewhere in the middle.....and I am of the opinion that Led is far, far less to blame than Michelle

I'm not. He started coaching her when she was 13. She had success before and has failed to realize her potential after.

If you want to blame Michelle for sticking with Leadbetter, that's fine, but him blaming his student is lame. It's not like she's not putting in effort. That's about the only time I'll blame a student (to their face) - when they don't put in the effort.

[JetFan1983]

11 hours ago, BallStriker said:

"Talent" is an elusive term......from a purely physical standpoint, the world is full of players who have all the shots, but not the ability to "get it done" (Ty Tyron, for a loose comparison).  I think there are two different thoughts going on here.....one believing that Led Poision  is to blame.....the other believing that Wiesy doesn't have the six inches between the ears to really get it done.....the truth probably is somewhere in the middle.....and I am of the opinion that Led is far, far less to blame than Michelle

You can see fairly dramatic differences in her swing from her peak teenage years to today. I really think Michelle fell into the classic trap of "being a great student of a bad teacher." She listened and committed to Lead-poison's bad advice for years, and this is the result. People get coached out of the game all the time. That's nothing new. It happens everyday on every driving range in the world.

It doesn't surprise me that "she's stubborn" and doesn't listen to him as much these days. It does surprise me though that she still works with him, and that's on her.

 

Just as one example, here's Michelle in 2003:

Then compare her to now (right photo) and see how much she leaves her weight back (left is Yanni Tseng when she was ranked no.1 a few years ago).

Note the difference in how much more weight/pressure she still has on her back foot that late into the follow through.

---

It's not a secret that Lead-poison was a fan of x-factor stuff, maintaining excessive flexion in the trail knee on the backswing, and "releasing the club" -- stuff that has long since been exposed as horrendous advice.

In the end though, it doesn't surprise me that he thinks he's blameless in all this. The guy wouldn't be able to get out of bed in the morning if he was honest with himself or aware of what he did to her.

[saevel25]

13 minutes ago, JetFan1983 said:

It's not a secret that Lead-poison was a fan of x-factor stuff, maintaining excessive flexion in the trail knee on the backswing, and "releasing the club" -- stuff that has long since been exposed as horrendous advice

Now you have Leadbetter trying to make everyone swing like Furyk. 

 

[DrvFrShow]

 

Notice how much more fluid her swing was in 2005 than it is in 2015. I don't like that restricted hip.

[acerimusdux]

But I think she was restricting the hip some even back in 2003. I'm not convinced that can be blamed on David, and I don't think it's what he actually teaches. And it's something he has specifically said he doesn't like in her swing.

I think one thing with Michelle is she hasn't really been doing one thing consistently. But I also think it might be a case not so much of "bad teacher", as "wrong teacher".

It seems to me the golfers who have had success with Leadbetter have been mostly those who use a more upright stance, not too wide, two plane, full hip and shoulder turn, very rotational with minimal lateral movement, and yes, "release the club" (which actually works well with that swing type).

Michelle though seem to like to be more bent over, wide stance, almost single plane, doesn't really look like a "Leadbetter golfer" to me. And yet she's been with him for 13 years.

Lydia Ko by contrast, look at her swing pre-Leadbetter, and it was more one plane, less upright, etc., but she seems to have taken to Leadbetter's method like a fish to water. Look at her swing during her outstanding 2014 season, and she was already more upright, with the typical Leadbetter posture, Leadbetter pivot, Leadbetter release. 

 

[KKGolfPro]

Really it is no one's fault. The typical golf swing is to blame for inconsistency even among the best players. 

[taxgolf]

On 4/29/2016 at 3:15 PM, iacas said:

I don't think Leadbetter's instruction is blameless. I don't like the things he did with Michelle, and I'm in a position to know.

There's a reason Leadbetter is called "Lead Poison."

I am not so sure if you can or want to tell a bit more about that. You do have more insight than others and I would really like to know about leadpoison etc. But I would also understand if you can't.

 

When I picked up a golfclub for the first time, I bought a dvd of LeadB. At that time, his info made sense. How naïve of me. 

 

For what is worth, I do not think you should critisize your student in public. Most of the members of public probably do not have a clue what teacher and student are working on. To me, it seems to be a split-up in the making.

 

 

3 hours ago, KKGolfPro said:

Really it is no one's fault. The typical golf swing is to blame for inconsistency even among the best players. 

I am sorry,  I fail to see quoting your own article contributes here in relation to mr Leadbetter.

[boogielicious]

2 hours ago, taxgolf said:

I am not so sure if you can or want to tell a bit more about that. You do have more insight than others and I would really like to know about leadpoison etc. But I would also understand if you can't.

 

When I picked up a golfclub for the first time, I bought a dvd of LeadB. At that time, his info made sense. How naïve of me. 

 

For what is worth, I do not think you should critisize your student in public. Most of the members of public probably do not have a clue what teacher and student are working on. To me, it seems to be a split-up in the making.

 

 

I am sorry,  I fail to see quoting your own article contributes here in relation to mr Leadbetter.

I deleted the link.