Drawing Driver has messed up entire game

[Josh90]

So I've been playing golf for about 3 months now and am slowly getting the hang of it. The irons are coming along nicely but I keep slicing my driver. So recently I've been working on a draw with the driver and I'm getting the hang of it slowly but now that has messed up my iron swings. I don't know if I'm supposed to also try and draw my irons shots or what but I was able to hit them pretty straight and accurate but now majority of the time I get a dead pull with them? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

[saevel25]

It's hard to tell with out actually seeing your swing. 

I would first check out this thread, 

Besides that I would create a My Swing thread and post a video of your swing. 

 

 

[Rainmaker]

I think you're problem is pretty typical and I had the same experience . .I could hit my irons straight (ish) but I sliced my driver big time every time.  I started to try to learn how to hit a draw but really what I was doing was producing "right to left" ball flight . . not to get into semantics . . it was a good thing I was doing - certainly better than a booming slice - but it's not what I would call a draw today . .which has right to left ball flight with reference to some sort of target line. 

I even got to where I could "draw" all my clubs this way . .but I was still actually hitting that same huge slice - just learning how to manipulate my path and clubface. 

So - you're on the right path - but it's a long path.  Without seeing your swing, I can tell you have some fundamentals off (which is an easy thing to say because we all do) . . I wouldn't get super hung up on driver flight, iron flight . .the same set of improper mechanics can product fats, thins, tops, shanks, slices, hooks, etc.  You can drive yourself crazy trying to fix symptoms.  Take a look at the 5 keys here on the site - rate yourself on them . .and go from there. 

 

[mvmac]

@saevel25 beat me to it 
 

@Josh90, the swing doesn't really "change" from iron to driver, biggest difference is the set-up. You're basically making the same swing.

[Josh90]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'm not positive about my swing path but I'm 95% sure I've changed my swing path. I got my fiance to videotape my practice swing which I know isn't exactly the same but it's definitely and inside to outside path. I'm getting hooks and straight pushes now with some mixed in nice draws. But with my irons it's different now because my swing feels different so should I try to draw the irons also?

[Rainmaker]

1 hour ago, Josh90 said:

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'm not positive about my swing path but I'm 95% sure I've changed my swing path. I got my fiance to videotape my practice swing which I know isn't exactly the same but it's definitely and inside to outside path. I'm getting hooks and straight pushes now with some mixed in nice draws. But with my irons it's different now because my swing feels different so should I try to draw the irons also?

I would say, emphatically, "Yes". 

There was a discussion here recently about how obsessing over a draw shape can actually hurt more than help - but I totally don't buy it unless you can already hit a draw with all your clubs.  If you can't - you need to, imo.  Then you can decide not to do it.  That's what my teacher had me do, anyway, and it seems right to me. 

[Josh90]

I understand all the ball flight laws with swing path and club face now so that helps assess my problems somewhat. Will the irons draw the ball the same amount as a driver or does each club vary?

[14ledo81]

3 hours ago, Josh90 said:

I understand all the ball flight laws with swing path and club face now so that helps assess my problems somewhat. Will the irons draw the ball the same amount as a driver or does each club vary?

Definitely varies.  The more loft, the harder to hook/slice.

[Lihu]

19 hours ago, Josh90 said:

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'm not positive about my swing path but I'm 95% sure I've changed my swing path. I got my fiance to videotape my practice swing which I know isn't exactly the same but it's definitely and inside to outside path. I'm getting hooks and straight pushes now with some mixed in nice draws. But with my irons it's different now because my swing feels different so should I try to draw the irons also?

Dead pulls as noted in an earlier post you made are usually a sign of out to in swings.

As @saevel25 noted, they'd need to see DTL video to help you.

 

12 hours ago, 14ledo81 said:

Definitely varies.  The more loft, the harder to hook/slice.

Right, mainly because higher lifted clubs should spin a lot more. It's still possible, to hook or slice if there is not enough spin.

[Buckeyebowman]

12 hours ago, Lihu said:

Dead pulls as noted in an earlier post you made are usually a sign of out to in swings.

As @saevel25 noted, they'd need to see DTL video to help you.

 

Right, mainly because higher lifted clubs should spin a lot more. It's still possible, to hook or slice if there is not enough spin.

Every instructor I've heard or read says the same thing. If you have a consistent slicer, the only way to fix that is to teach them to hook the ball. Don't care if they hook it off the planet! You can straighten out a hook into a draw.

What is confusing is that if the OP is hitting dead pulls with his irons, how is he managing to hit a draw with his driver? You're right, dead pulls come from an out to in swingpath, with the clubface square to the swingpath. If he did the same thing with his driver, he should hit dead pulls with it as well. Unless he's making a completely different swing with his driver, from his irons.

And hooking or slicing short irons depends on how you tilt the axis of spin through manipulation of the swingpath and clubface. Witness Bubba's sweeping hook of a wedge in the Masters playoff a few years back. Such shots are generally beyond the capability of us mere mortals!

Edited June 12, 2016 by Buckeyebowman

[Rainmaker]

13 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

What is confusing is that if the OP is hitting dead pulls with his irons, how is he managing to hit a draw with his driver? You're right, dead pulls come from an out to in swingpath, with the clubface square to the swingpath. If he did the same thing with his driver, he should hit dead pulls with it as well. Unless he's making a completely different swing with his driver, from his irons.

I don't know anything about the OP's swing, of course .. but perhaps it's because he's making that same dead pull swing - but the ball is farther forward with the driver and the clubface closes a bit more -  . resulting in actually a pull-draw or pull-hook.  That was, actually, my first step in learning to hit a draw - lining up right of target and pull-hooking it (I mean, not intentionally . .but that's what I was actually doing). 

[Golfingdad]

On June 10, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Josh90 said:

I understand all the ball flight laws with swing path and club face now so that helps assess my problems somewhat. Will the irons draw the ball the same amount as a driver or does each club vary?

 

On June 10, 2016 at 5:56 PM, 14ledo81 said:

Definitely varies.  The more loft, the harder to hook/slice.

Right because the "backspin" component of the total plays a greater relative role (versus sides pin) as loft increases.

Additionally, it's also entirely possible and not abnormal to draw irons and fade the driver with the exact same swing.  Consider that if you're swing is perfectly square and you catch the irons while still on the downswing , then it's also still on its way out, whereas if you catch the driver on the up, then it's started back in.

Basically, like @mvmac said - the setup plays a big role.

[Buckeyebowman]

41 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

I don't know anything about the OP's swing, of course .. but perhaps it's because he's making that same dead pull swing - but the ball is farther forward with the driver and the clubface closes a bit more -  . resulting in actually a pull-draw or pull-hook.  That was, actually, my first step in learning to hit a draw - lining up right of target and pull-hooking it (I mean, not intentionally . .but that's what I was actually doing). 

That's why I wish the OP had offered a more detailed account of the ball flight. Does his driver start right of the target and draw back to it, or start at the target and draw left of it, or start left of it and draw farther left? Even a good quality vid will not show that.

[mvmac]

2 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Does his driver start right of the target and draw back to it, or start at the target and draw left of it, or start left of it and draw farther left?

I'm guessing there is still some "pull" involved, relative to his body lines.

Sounds like @Josh90 may be trying to draw it by just swinging out to the right. For some players this can get them to tip back, level out the shoulders and stay closed for too long.

[iacas]

19 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Every instructor I've heard or read says the same thing. If you have a consistent slicer, the only way to fix that is to teach them to hook the ball. Don't care if they hook it off the planet! You can straighten out a hook into a draw.

Count me among the instructors who don't say that thing. I don't see the point in trading one big curve for the opposite one. Just make it better.

[Buckeyebowman]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Count me among the instructors who don't say that thing. I don't see the point in trading one big curve for the opposite one. Just make it better.

Okay. But, for me, that's the way it worked. When I had first played a little bit I could hit the ball a mile, but sideways! I had a slice that could cross two fairways! It wasn't until I learned to make the ball go the other way that my game improved. It seems I had to "cross the line" between slice and hook to start to get a handle on things.

[Rainmaker]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

Count me among the instructors who don't say that thing. I don't see the point in trading one big curve for the opposite one. Just make it better.

 

3 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Okay. But, for me, that's the way it worked. When I had first played a little bit I could hit the ball a mile, but sideways! I had a slice that could cross two fairways! It wasn't until I learned to make the ball go the other way that my game improved. It seems I had to "cross the line" between slice and hook to start to get a handle on things.

Me, too . .although I would have to say that what I'm doing now is not the *opposite* of what I was doing then.  Ie . .my draw today is not the opposite of my slice from before.  I could see there being other ways to teach it. 

What my teacher wanted me to do is be able to "move it left" with all my clubs . .for a long time I could do it with my irons but not my driver but he kept on me about it until I could finally do it with all my clubs.  I remember the lesson where I passed this stage - he had me hit a drive, then curve one right, then curve one left without changing my alignment/stance.  After that we pretty much never discussed it again . .so far, anyway. 

But I got to the point where I could do that without actually fixing my slice!  Technically, I was not hitting a "slice" but I was still making that "slice move".  Shortly after that, though - I started to really change my basic move to a non-ott move. 

 

[Golfingdad]

7 hours ago, iacas said:

Count me among the instructors who don't say that thing. I don't see the point in trading one big curve for the opposite one. Just make it better.

It seems to me that for some cases it might make sense if for nothing more than to get the student to understand the feel of the hook.