Brexit - Leave or Remain

[Silent]

I don't have to guess, I know the Netherlands is one ;) The EU is much more than a money transfer, but if you fail to see that I can't help you.

PS this made me laugh:

[nevets88]

 

[Abu3baid]

12 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

 

I don't get it.

[boogielicious]

3 hours ago, Silent said:

I don't have to guess, I know the Netherlands is one ;) The EU is much more than a money transfer, but if you fail to see that I can't help you.

PS this made me laugh:

Awesome! Although to be fair, which one of the items on the left is part of Netherlands cuisine apart from beer?

[Silent]

15 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Awesome! Although to be fair, which one of the items on the left is part of Netherlands cuisine apart from beer?

Stroopwafel. It's that cookie on the far right, on top of that cup.

[boogielicious]

11 minutes ago, Silent said:

Stroopwafel. It's that cookie on the far right, on top of that cup.

Cool. I'll have to try it next time I'm there!

[Lihu]

7 hours ago, Silent said:

I don't have to guess, I know the Netherlands is one ;) The EU is much more than a money transfer, but if you fail to see that I can't help you.

PS this made me laugh:

This is funny, and pretty much sums it up!

 

I'm totally guessing, but, to be fair, it seems like England avoided becoming part of: Rome (at least north of the wall); Saxony; Normandy (William was English); France; Spain in the 1600s; France again in the 1800s and Germany less than 80 years ago. In short, they avoided all those invasions by being. . .well, English.

So, I can see why they have such a strong sense of sovereignty.

[jamo]

24 minutes ago, Lihu said:

This is funny, and pretty much sums it up!

 

I'm totally guessing, but, to be fair, it seems like England avoided becoming part of: Rome (at least north of the wall); Saxony; Normandy (William was English); France; Spain in the 1600s; France again in the 1800s and Germany less than 80 years ago. In short, they avoided all those invasions by being. . .well, English.

So, I can see why they have such a strong sense of sovereignty.

It's too bad it took so much spilled blood for them to realize their colonies had that same sense.

[newtogolf]

While there may have been some economic benefit to being a member of the EU, the ability of it to dictate things like the number of immigrants (refugees) you had to accept and wages had to be frustrating for many.  I think it will be a positive decision for the UK assuming they can reach an agreement with the EU for trade.  

I think many here in the States wish their state could secede from the US as the Federal government continues to reach beyond it's designed intent and reduces the rights of States.  

[Lihu]

31 minutes ago, jamo said:

It's too bad it took so much spilled blood for them to realize their colonies had that same sense.

Yeah, that was the other side of the equation. . .Their history had a lot of spilled blood, but no other country is free from that accusation. Where there are humans, there is violence. Where there are animals, there is blood spilled.

[saevel25]

28 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I think many here in the States wish their state could secede from the US as the Federal government continues to reach beyond it's designed intent and reduces the rights of States.  

There are too many far reaching implications for a state to secede from the US. What if a landlocked state seceded and then the US Government banned travel to and from that new country? These governors and legislatures who spout stuff like seceding need to stand back and really think about what might happen to their state that they are entrusted to. 

 

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

While there may have been some economic benefit to being a member of the EU, the ability of it to dictate things like the number of immigrants (refugees) you had to accept and wages had to be frustrating for many.  I think it will be a positive decision for the UK assuming they can reach an agreement with the EU for trade.  

I think many here in the States wish their state could secede from the US as the Federal government continues to reach beyond it's designed intent and reduces the rights of States.  

This shouldn't be too difficult, if they don't do anything stupid.

They are a pretty large economic power, although not the 5th because that would be as the leader of the UK which include Ireland and Scotland which did not vote for Brexit. So, my guess is Scotland and Ireland (Ireland would likely be combined into one nation) would simply continue to be part of the EU and possibly divide UK?

Britain would likely be on it's own. A separate entity. It's economy would likely be a lot smaller than the 2.7T for UK as a whole. They'd lose a lot of productivity than simply subtracting the GDP of Ireland, Northern Ireland (which they would simply lose to Ireland) and Scotland. They also got almost all of London upset by the vote. London does not want to separate from EU.

So, you'd be left with a bunch of angry farmers and tourist guides who hate the EU. Guessing it would only be roughly 1.8T or even a lot less, which would put it in the high teens in world ranking or just about the same as Italy or even further down the list.

As for violence in Northern Ireland, I think a reunification of Ireland would be supported by the EU, right? It would likely be more of a legal battle than an actual war. I doubt that Britain would want to start a war with EU and the rest of the world would likely back the EU. It would be bad for business.

So, Britain could possibly get a lot of "refugees" from Northern Ireland?

Britain could potentially become a strong economic entity again, but it would be far from the power it had as the leader of the UK and a strong member of the EU.

 

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

While there may have been some economic benefit to being a member of the EU, the ability of it to dictate things like the number of immigrants (refugees) you had to accept and wages had to be frustrating for many.  I think it will be a positive decision for the UK assuming they can reach an agreement with the EU for trade.  

I think many here in the States wish their state could secede from the US as the Federal government continues to reach beyond it's designed intent and reduces the rights of States.  

Sure, some of us can wish all we want, but we saw what happened in the 1860s. The Constitution is a really strong reason to stay together.

 

39 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

There are too many far reaching implications for a state to secede from the US.

Agree. We're a country that is held together by our Constitution.

 

[newtogolf]

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

There are too many far reaching implications for a state to secede from the US. What if a landlocked state seceded and then the US Government banned travel to and from that new country? These governors and legislatures who spout stuff like seceding need to stand back and really think about what might happen to their state that they are entrusted to. 

 

It's off topic but I agree there are a lot of implications but I would think any state that did secede would do so with an agreement in place or hopes of an agreement much like the UK did with the EU.  

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

This shouldn't be too difficult, if they don't do anything stupid.

They are a pretty large economic power, although not the 5th because that would be as the leader of the UK which include Ireland and Scotland which did not vote for Brexit. So, my guess is Scotland and Ireland (Ireland would likely be combined into one nation) would simply continue to be part of the EU and possibly divide UK?

Britain would likely be on it's own. A separate entity. It's economy would likely be a lot smaller than the 2.7T for UK as a whole. They'd lose a lot of productivity than simply subtracting the GDP of Ireland, Northern Ireland (which they would simply lose to Ireland) and Scotland. They also got almost all of London upset by the vote. London does not want to separate from EU.

So, you'd be left with a bunch of angry farmers and tourist guides who hate the EU. Guessing it would only be roughly 1.8T or even a lot less, which would put it in the high teens in world ranking or just about the same as Italy or even further down the list.

As for violence in Northern Ireland, I think a reunification of Ireland would be supported by the EU, right? It would likely be more of a legal battle than an actual war. I doubt that Britain would want to start a war with EU and the rest of the world would likely back the EU. It would be bad for business.

So, Britain could possibly get a lot of "refugees" from Northern Ireland?

Britain could potentially become a strong economic entity again, but it would be far from the power it had as the leader of the UK and a strong member of the EU.

 

It's not a matter of stupidity it's a matter the EU establishing a precedent for countries that wish to exit.  If they make it too easy for the UK, other countries may decide to exit the EU.  

There are a lot of reasons for the EU to reach agreement with the UK, but if there isn't any penalty for exiting then why does the EU exist?  

[Abu3baid]

24 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

It's off topic but I agree there are a lot of implications but I would think any state that did secede would do so with an agreement in place or hopes of an agreement much like the UK did with the EU.  

It's not a matter of stupidity it's a matter the EU establishing a precedent for countries that wish to exit.  If they make it too easy for the UK, other countries may decide to exit the EU.  

There are a lot of reasons for the EU to reach agreement with the UK, but if there isn't any penalty for exiting then why does the EU exist?  

Yeah, officials already came out and said not in so many terms that there won't be any kind of preferential treatment for the UK, and I agree there needs to be some sort of deternt precedent set in their minds.

[Lihu]

29 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

It's not a matter of stupidity it's a matter the EU establishing a precedent for countries that wish to exit.  If they make it too easy for the UK, other countries may decide to exit the EU.  

There are a lot of reasons for the EU to reach agreement with the UK, but if there isn't any penalty for exiting then why does the EU exist?  

It's kind of moot, because I don't see it actually happening. However, what I mean by something stupid is more on the lines of what to do with the rest of UK, London and Cambridge all of whom voted for remain.

It's tough to have an economy of basically farmers and tour guides. Their high tech and heavy industries depend too heavily upon other countries to consume their goods.

[InTheRough]

24 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

It's not a matter of stupidity it's a matter the EU establishing a precedent for countries that wish to exit.  If they make it too easy for the UK, other countries may decide to exit the EU.  

There are a lot of reasons for the EU to reach agreement with the UK, but if there isn't any penalty for exiting then why does the EU exist?  

I think this is the key point in the negotiations to come.  The EU cannot let the UK come out ahead by leaving because that may lead to other the countries who make up the financial backbone of the EU to back out as well.

I'm curious to hear from anyone from Germany, France, or Italy to see what their thoughts on Brexit are and if there are any thoughts on those countries now exiting the EU as well.

[Buckeyebowman]

20 hours ago, paininthenuts said:

That is a poignant comment. I am 58 and voted out. It's arguable that I would be better off if we had stayed, especially as I live in the country and don't have to suffer the over crowding directly. I voted out for the good of the future generations. The EU has been a complete flop, and there are only 3 countries out of the 28 who put in more than they take out, and guess who one is. Hopefully this will be the beginning of the end for one of the most corrupt organisations of our time 

A poignant comment in it's own right. What the UK voted out of was the joy in bailing out Greece, Italy, and possibly Spain with their "endless vacation" ideas of how life should be! The PM of Greece is an absolute nutlog, BTW!

And despite the fact that travel between EU countries was made easier due to not requiring passports, it also created a problem. The problem being that Turkey sits on your Southeastern border, and hundreds of thousands of "refugees" are flooding Europe from there!

This mimics free travel between states here in the U.S. But, these are sovereign states, not sovereign nations! Sovereign nations have the right to control their borders, know who is getting in and out and why, and how long they will be here. Unfortunately, we have a gigantic "hole" in our Southwestern border which the Feds seem loathe to close.

If I want to travel to Mexico, and now Canada, I have to have a valid passport. It seems I need that no matter where I go abroad. So, what's the problem?

BTW, many of these ideas were not developed on my own. They come from information from an expatriate Brit who still has family in the UK, and consider the EU to be an unmitigated disaster!

[Silent]

1 hour ago, Buckeyebowman said:

A poignant comment in it's own right. What the UK voted out of was the joy in bailing out Greece, Italy, and possibly Spain with their "endless vacation" ideas of how life should be! The PM of Greece is an absolute nutlog, BTW!

One of the things I heared before from the Brexit side... but based on what actually? The average annual working time in Greece, Portugal, Italy ánd Spain is higher than in United Kingdom. Also the age when one can take his/her pension is not lower than in United Kingdom. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_time But hey, endless vacation FTW!

 

1 hour ago, Buckeyebowman said:

And despite the fact that travel between EU countries was made easier due to not requiring passports, it also created a problem. The problem being that Turkey sits on your Southeastern border, and hundreds of thousands of "refugees" are flooding Europe from there!

If I want to travel to Mexico, and now Canada, I have to have a valid passport. It seems I need that no matter where I go abroad. So, what's the problem?

 

Euhm, to travel in EU you need a valid passport as well. Within the Schengen area there's free travel, but one still requires a passport to do so. Besides that, United Kingdom is not even part of Schengen. So besides the fact you seem to mix up EU and Schengen, your comment is untrue regardless.

1 hour ago, Buckeyebowman said:

BTW, many of these ideas were not developed on my own. They come from information from an expatriate Brit who still has family in the UK, and consider the EU to be an unmitigated disaster!

Well, if he's telling you things which are factual untrue, maybe you should listen to other people as well