Separate Tees / By Age or By Hdcp

[onthehunt526]

20 hours ago, WUTiger said:

Talk to them about adjustments on Par 5 holes. Either senior tees for Par 5s only, or an extra stroke (or maybe half stroke) on Par 5s.

Good old half-whacks.

[disco111]

Lots of reply's but what I'm finding out here is that the "play it forward" seems to be falling on def ears. Even the pro tournaments that had both the seniors and ladies along with regular tour players all played from different tees. Why then should an amature senior play from the same tees as young college and local PGA pros. Yes we have 2 or 3 that play in our game from time to time and the young guns all have low single or scratch hdcps. The whole idea of having different tees is to make the game level, as much as possible.

There is no "preoccupation" with hitting par 5's in two..........just stating a fact that at least half of the guys can and do get home in two or at least green side left or right. Beats the hell out of hitting a 5 or 6 for your third when their putting or chipping for eagle. But if as you say "been there" then you know what i mean.

Now there's no way a 70+ senior is going to get back to a 5, unless he starts to play from the senior tees, which again, are designed to make up for the fact that your old and can't hit it that far anymore. As for the other seniors, my game, for whatever reason is better than the majority of them and when I did play with them, they used the senior tees and I played the whites, but they still would rather I not join them. I'm even at least 10 years older than most of them, but that another drama line. As I stated before, I'm stuck in a sort of limbo. If I want to play in a competitive format, I've got no choice but to play with the current group. But in order to be really competitive or at least an attempt to be, the tee adjustments need to be made. Other than this, all that's left is go play by myself and probably start to loose interest in the game.     

[GolfLug]

23 minutes ago, disco111 said:

Lots of reply's but what I'm finding out here is that the "play it forward" seems to be falling on def ears. Even the pro tournaments that had both the seniors and ladies along with regular tour players all played from different tees. Why then should an amature senior play from the same tees as young college and local PGA pros. Yes we have 2 or 3 that play in our game from time to time and the young guns all have low single or scratch hdcps. The whole idea of having different tees is to make the game level, as much as possible.

There is no "preoccupation" with hitting par 5's in two..........just stating a fact that at least half of the guys can and do get home in two or at least green side left or right. Beats the hell out of hitting a 5 or 6 for your third when their putting or chipping for eagle. But if as you say "been there" then you know what i mean.

Now there's no way a 70+ senior is going to get back to a 5, unless he starts to play from the senior tees, which again, are designed to make up for the fact that your old and can't hit it that far anymore. As for the other seniors, my game, for whatever reason is better than the majority of them and when I did play with them, they used the senior tees and I played the whites, but they still would rather I not join them. I'm even at least 10 years older than most of them, but that another drama line. As I stated before, I'm stuck in a sort of limbo. If I want to play in a competitive format, I've got no choice but to play with the current group. But in order to be really competitive or at least an attempt to be, the tee adjustments need to be made. Other than this, all that's left is go play by myself and probably start to loose interest in the game.     

Wow, that sounds like a tough deal. I am assuming you wouldn't consider a different course to join.

FWIW, all seniors in our league, regardless of their HCP play from the 2nd shortest tees (5,300 par 70). Regular men's tees are 6,100, also par 70), We play blind team draw Stableford only on net as some of them beat the dog$hi+ out of the ball still but under club rules have moved up. They are in the money regularly.  

[SG11118]

I have read through this thread, and I don't see that you've answered several people's question about whether you play gross or net. 

I could see where your co-players could be a little hesitant to let you move up several tee boxes for the greenies portion of your game.  Are you obligated to play in both the greenies and the skins?  Could you skip out on the greenie portion of your games?

As for the skins portion, if you play with handicaps, and everyone has accurate handicaps, it shouldn't matter what tees you play from.  Handicaps can be adjusted for players playing against each other when they are playing from different tees.  If you have a higher course rating from your tees than they do from their tees you will get a stroke on several of the holes and have a better chance of winning skins on those holes.

 

29 minutes ago, disco111 said:

Now there's no way a 70+ senior is going to get back to a 5, unless he starts to play from the senior tees,

The senior tees will have a smaller course rating and slope than the regular or championship tees.  Theoretically, even if you shoot a couple strokes better from the senior tees, the net effect on your handicap is likely to be nullified.  In general terms, the handicap system is set up so If you are a 5 handicap, you are a 5 handicap regardless of which tees you play on.  In actual practice, if a portion of your game is really weak (such as length), and the other parts of your game aren't good enough to overcome this weakness, I guess it is plausible, that you could put up slightly better scores vs the course rating on a shorter set of tees.

 

[MrFlipper]

54 minutes ago, disco111 said:

Lots of reply's but what I'm finding out here is that the "play it forward" seems to be falling on def ears. Even the pro tournaments that had both the seniors and ladies along with regular tour players all played from different tees. Why then should an amature senior play from the same tees as young college and local PGA pros. Yes we have 2 or 3 that play in our game from time to time and the young guns all have low single or scratch hdcps. The whole idea of having different tees is to make the game level, as much as possible.

There is no "preoccupation" with hitting par 5's in two..........just stating a fact that at least half of the guys can and do get home in two or at least green side left or right. Beats the hell out of hitting a 5 or 6 for your third when their putting or chipping for eagle. But if as you say "been there" then you know what i mean.

Now there's no way a 70+ senior is going to get back to a 5, unless he starts to play from the senior tees, which again, are designed to make up for the fact that your old and can't hit it that far anymore. As for the other seniors, my game, for whatever reason is better than the majority of them and when I did play with them, they used the senior tees and I played the whites, but they still would rather I not join them. I'm even at least 10 years older than most of them, but that another drama line. As I stated before, I'm stuck in a sort of limbo. If I want to play in a competitive format, I've got no choice but to play with the current group. But in order to be really competitive or at least an attempt to be, the tee adjustments need to be made. Other than this, all that's left is go play by myself and probably start to loose interest in the game.     

Yeah, I know what it's like to hit 6 irons for your third when the long knockers are around the green in two. I'm 10+ years younger than you, I quit playing with the long knocker types on the way back tees years ago. I'm impressed that you hung with them this long. Maybe you feel you should be with the seniors, but whatever reason you feel unwelcome there too. Sounds to me like you hit it too far to move up that far just yet anyway, especially if it's not a good crowd for you.

And I gotta say that years ago when I was one of the guys at the back tees and someone wanted to play with us but from the senior or even the middle tees, I wouldn't have been keen on that at all. No strokes, everyone plays from the same tees was always the rule. But that's just me.

I agree with the post just above, the white tees should still allow you to get back to a 5, short tees equate to low course ratings. Maybe practicing more will rekindle some more love for the game, too.

I'm surprised there isn't a large group of players between the long knockers and the seniors, folks who play the white/middle tees and still compete seriously but hit it similar distances to yours. Those guys have to be around there somewhere, just gotta find them. And there should be a bunch of them.

You'll find those guys, especially on the weekends in men's club. Ask the pro. And don't lose interest, this is great exercise, great fellowship and where else will you find that? Hang in there!!! 

[disco111]

"We just throw in 5 for skins and 4 for greenies (that's the main game for everybody, but what you do in your own group is over this). I really couldn't play total score against these guys, either net or gross. That 5 you see is more like a 10 now."

This was in my second posting and it's easy to see how it could have been over looked. In truth, that 5 listed was from at least 5 to 8 years ago and from the Blue (championship) tees. Since then, time and injuries have taken their toll on the body, but not the mind. I still think i can bring it, but I've slowly come to the realization that soft shafts and low compression balls can't make up for lack of swing speed. It sucks getting old!

As for the skins and greenies, their played at scratch. The only differential, as of now is that they have let myself and 2 or 3 other over 50 guys, move up to the whites. Even with this, many times with whomever sets the tee markers, there's at most one club difference and perhaps even less. 

I do appreciate all the replies and suggestions. I'm just ranting. I'll just have to bone up on my short game and start some mind games with them. Something along these lines Hey Mitch!, just before you take the club back do you inhale or exhale? Wow, I know there's wind above the trees, but you just can't feel it down here. Last time I had that putt it broke the opposite way.............and so on....Old age and treachery can overcome youth and ability - so they say.......

[Gunther]

1 hour ago, disco111 said:

Lots of reply's but what I'm finding out here is that the "play it forward" seems to be falling on def ears. Even the pro tournaments that had both the seniors and ladies along with regular tour players all played from different tees. Why then should an amature senior play from the same tees as young college and local PGA pros. Yes we have 2 or 3 that play in our game from time to time and the young guns all have low single or scratch hdcps. The whole idea of having different tees is to make the game level, as much as possible.

There is no "preoccupation" with hitting par 5's in two..........just stating a fact that at least half of the guys can and do get home in two or at least green side left or right. Beats the hell out of hitting a 5 or 6 for your third when their putting or chipping for eagle. But if as you say "been there" then you know what i mean.

Now there's no way a 70+ senior is going to get back to a 5, unless he starts to play from the senior tees, which again, are designed to make up for the fact that your old and can't hit it that far anymore. As for the other seniors, my game, for whatever reason is better than the majority of them and when I did play with them, they used the senior tees and I played the whites, but they still would rather I not join them. I'm even at least 10 years older than most of them, but that another drama line. As I stated before, I'm stuck in a sort of limbo. If I want to play in a competitive format, I've got no choice but to play with the current group. But in order to be really competitive or at least an attempt to be, the tee adjustments need to be made. Other than this, all that's left is go play by myself and probably start to loose interest in the game.     

Doesn't sound like you even have an option based on hcp.  If the guys you're playing with are scratch or low single digits and you're not, you should play up.  But, if you are also a low capper, you need to play the same tees.  If you struggle as much as you claim, you're not gonna be a low capper for long, then you can move up.  I don't see the issue unless you are a double digit and they're still making you play back.  In which case, you have no option but to quit that group or suck it up.

[bkuehn1952]

I know someone who once was a "5" and hit the ball further.  Now he is a "10" with limited distance.  As much as he would like to believe he can still hang with the younger guys, they pretty regularly take his money.  He has tried to get the "sticks" to give him a bit of an advantage but they like things simple: tips and no strokes.  I have told him to find another group but he insists on trying to hang with the big dogs.

He has some money so being a "donor" in his game works okay.  He gets to hang with the boyz and it only costs him $5.

[Fourputt]

On 7/14/2016 at 9:52 AM, disco111 said:

Should you base playing tees upon your age or hdcp? 

  

Neither.  Pace of play should be one of the first considerations in choosing a tee.  If you can keep up, play any tees you like.  If you can't keep up, then expect to hear some bitching coming from the group behind you, no matter what tees you are playing.

[onthehunt526]

@disco111 What the hell are greenies? Ain't never heard of such a game. We play $20 a man weekend skins where I play with a blind team draw... (A players and 2 or 3 B players)... And the B players get half whacks on the par 5s and 3 of the par 4s... Specifically 5, 14, and 18... If a B player makes a birdie and no other B player makes a birdie on a half whack hole even if all the A players birdie it the B player gets the skin.

I'd say the big boys can shut up... If you are in your 70s play the senior tees... I don't think it's fair they take advantage of you.

[disco111]

15 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

What the hell are greenies? Ain't never heard of such a game.

We have 4 par 3's and everyone throws in 4 bucks. Closest to the hole on the par 3's wins that hole and 1/4 the pot. You must par the hole to win though. If you 3 putt then that's a carry over and it get added to the other 3 holes. If your on, you can win a few bucks just on these alone. It's been done that only one hole was made and that person won all 4 of the greenies because nobody hit the other 3 or if they did, they 3 putted. So you have say 20 guys playing and you happen to win one or two, that's 40 bucks your up. Not bad for just a one shot and 2 putt.

Played today and got some paybacks. Last par 3, 210yds, nutted a 3wd and came to 5 feet of the pin. Lipped out but had the greenie and got 20 bucks back. 16 buck profit, not all that bad. Only problem is that those shots are far from normal at that distance. It was just a good day..........  

[Valleygolfer]

Kind of sounds like these guys want a more "scratch" style group. Everyone playing the same layout and are letting you move up one box to tag along for the ride.

[MyrtleBeach59]

Forty years of golf and now at 57 I can say I am ready for Senior Tees depending on Slope Rating.Today I am at a 135 slope It was long. I am out driving everyone in my group. Today's long par 4's and 5's are not made for normal humans. The distance on prime courses is out of control. Easy course I am on the whites. Top end, with the money it costs to play I am moving up. I am not getting paid for this, It is for fun.

[sjduffers]

On July 15, 2016 at 6:24 AM, paininthenuts said:

I have always believed there should only be one tee. I know this is controversial, but it makes sense.

No. This does not make sense.

A fresh example of why not? The #11 hole at Royal Troon, amply featured at this year's Open Championship. From the tee box used by the pros and shown numerous times on TV, the drive is at least 260 yards over a vast sea of gorse bushes. So don't bother showing up at that course, even if you are well connected and know a well-meaning member, unless you can bang a driver into the wind more than 265 yards... which is more than 95% of all golfers, men and women included.

Tee boxes are meant to be used according to people's ability, whether it'd be for overall length, forced carries, impossible angles, distance to hazards, etc.  The common denominator to all the tee boxes is that play ends up around and on the same green.

Also, by your argument that women and men should compete altogether, why not do the same at the Olympics and see if any women can run as fast as Usain Bolt, or swim as fast as Michael Phelps, or dead-lift as much as those guys, etc?...

The argument that handicap levels out everything is not correct either.  For one, the way handicaps (indices) are computed slightly favors lower handicappers and most importantly, that computation is not based on the same assumptions as to what defines a male scratch golfer and a female scratch golfer (or a bogey golfer), so the same index number represents two different abilities when you compare a male golfer and a female golfer. There are rules (USGA and I assume R&A as well) on how to create a fair competition with male and female players and their respective handicaps.