Turn that boombox down/off ... you idiot!

[JonMA1]

These are the types of discussions that make me really appreciate being able to play golf alone on an uncrowded course.

[newtogolf]

12 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

I have no idea what your point is to the original thread.   We often ask another golfer to be quiet if he is making noise while we tee off.   We have right to ask them to shut the music off when we tee off.   OTHO, the other group cannot insist on that we play with another group b/c they have to listen to their loud music.   I am assuming listening to loud music is a privilege and not an entitlement.   If you think it is an entitlement, then I have nothing else to discuss this thread with you.   

If the course allows music it's an entitlement within the rules of the course just like smoking or drinking beer is an entitlement if allowed so long as it's within the rules of the course.  

The discussion was not about other groups it was a about a 4th person joining a three some that preferred to listen to music.  The 4th person does not get to exert their right to not listen to music over the other three people who wish to listen to music.  If the individual doesn't like music they have the right to find another group to golf with, plug their ears or deal with it.   

You've pushed the discussion to extremes to make your point but I'm sure David would turn down the music at the tee box if the person requested but that's different than not listening to it at all.  

[David in FL]

1 minute ago, newtogolf said:

If the course allows music it's an entitlement within the rules of the course just like smoking or drinking beer is an entitlement if allowed so long as it's within the rules of the course.  

The discussion was not about other groups it was a about a 4th person joining a three some that preferred to listen to music.  The 4th person does not get to exert their right to not listen to music over the other three people who wish to listen to music.  If the individual doesn't like music they have the right to find another group to golf with, plug their ears to deal with it.   

You've pushed the discussion to extremes to make your point but I'm sure David would turn down the music at the tee box if the person requested but that's different than not listening to it at all.  

Yup.  Even though it's not loud to begin with, requested or not, if we approach a tee box with another group teeing off, the music is turned down.  Common courtesy.

As I said, we would never force our preference on others.  Sadly, many don't feel that way and believe that the rest of the world should always conform to their own preferences.

[boogielicious]

7 hours ago, David in FL said:

Yup.  Even though it's not loud to begin with, requested or not, if we approach a tee box with another group teeing off, the music is turned down.  Common courtesy.

As I said, we would never force our preference on others.  Sadly, many don't feel that way and believe that the rest of the world should always conform to their own preferences.

You are saying the same thing. You like to listen to music while you play and you think people, including singles, should conform to what you like or leave. It is the same exact thing. You're trying to make it into a 'PC is bad' situtation, but in fact it is you who wants other to conform to your preferences.

That being said, I like casual conversation, sounds of nature and my own inner music on the course. I don't need externally sourced music.

[Swungover]

Music on a golf course is about as bad as playing Pokemon Go at a Beyoncé concert!

seriously, please don't on my course. Mindfulness ....

[JonMA1]

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

You are saying the same thing. You like to listen to music while you play and you think people, including singles, should conform to what you like or leave. It is the same exact thing. You're trying to make it into a 'PC is bad' situtation, but in fact it is you who wants other to conform to your preferences.

I disagree. If the course allows music to be played, isn't it up to individuals who find it distracting or distasteful to choose to play another course? I'm assuming this is not a gray area regarding the rules of the course. I think the David and Joe are right in what they're saying.

The number of people is almost irrelevant (other than common courtesy). If the rules allow it and one person wants to listen to the music, he/she has that prerogative.

I hate being around drunk people, selfish bastards, golf snobs, loud obnoxious bro's, or other's taste in music. Guess what, those people/things are at golf courses. If the course allows the type of activity or behavior I dislike, I have to suck it up or choose another activity. Others shouldn't bend to my will.

Personally, I can't imagine playing music while playing golf. But if that's the direction the golfing community and industry is headed, we'd better get used to it and hope those playing it will be considerate.

Finally, I have to believe what David is talking about and what Rick described in his original post are two different things.

Edited July 30, 2016 by JonMA1

[chilepepper]

17 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

Sounds charming...

 Great city. Year round golf. 

[Fourputt]

1 hour ago, JonMA1 said:

I disagree. If the course allows music to be played, isn't it up to individuals who find it distracting or distasteful to choose to play another course? I'm assuming this is not a gray area regarding the rules of the course. I think the David and Joe are right in what they're saying.

The number of people is almost irrelevant (other than common courtesy). If the rules allow it and one person wants to listen to the music, he/she has that prerogative.

 

Since it is both against the Rules of Golf and can also be an etiquette issue, I disagree with any who say that it's just a case of majority rules.  From the Etiquette section of the book:

Quote

The Spirit of the Game

Golf is played, for the most part, without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules. All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game of golf.

Decision 14-3/17:
 

Quote

Listening to music or a broadcast while making a stroke or for a prolonged period might assist the player in his play, for example, by eliminating distractions or promoting a good tempo. Therefore, the use of an artificial device to listen to music or a broadcast, whether or not through headphones, while making a stroke or for a prolonged period of time during a stipulated round is a breach of Rule 14-3.

 

[David in FL]

4 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

Since it is both against the Rules of Golf and can also be an etiquette issue, I disagree with any who say that it's just a case of majority rules.  From the Etiquette section of the book:

Decision 14-3/17:
 

 

Yep.  In casual play, we violate the rule regularly.

As an interesting, admittedly strawman comparison, should a group that I'm joining as a single bow to my personal insistence that we play strictly by the rules, even though they do not?  What if they're all smokers?  Should they refrain from smoking simply because smoke bothers me?  Of course not.  If either bothers me, I'll simply opt not to play with them.

[drmevo]

11 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Yep.  In casual play, we violate the rule regularly.

As an interesting, admittedly strawman comparison, should a group that I'm joining as a single bow to my personal insistence that we play strictly by the rules, even though they do not?  What if they're all smokers?  Should they refrain from smoking simply because smoke bothers me?  Of course not.  If either bothers me, I'll simply opt not to play with them.

Aren't you preventing the person who wants to play by the rules from doing so by playing music that is audible to them? Don't they have that right? 

[Fourputt]

14 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Yep.  In casual play, we violate the rule regularly.

As an interesting, admittedly strawman comparison, should a group that I'm joining as a single bow to my personal insistence that we play strictly by the rules, even though they do not?  What if they're all smokers?  Should they refrain from smoking simply because smoke bothers me?  Of course not.  If either bothers me, I'll simply opt not to play with them.

I can make a point of mostly staying upwind from smokers, but music doesn't give me that option.  Depending on the proximity of our balls, I have no choice but to listen to your music.

[nevets88]

Maybe the habits of regular life are percolating to golf. I see more people playing their smartphones on public transportation, be it voicemail, music, movies, for the whole section of the bus, or subway car to hear and person is like, what me? It kind of beckons to the boom box aka ghetto blaster problems in the 70s. You want to commute in peace. You want to watch your movie in peace. Same goes for golf. If you can make it so that you hear your music without bothering others, than do so, but don't spoil it for the rest of us.

[David in FL]

51 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

I can make a point of mostly staying upwind from smokers, but music doesn't give me that option.  Depending on the proximity of our balls, I have no choice but to listen to your music.

Maybe yes, maybe no.  Certainly not in the case of a mandatory shared cart.  Should your entire group be forced not to smoke because I opted to join you?

 

55 minutes ago, drmevo said:

Aren't you preventing the person who wants to play by the rules from doing so by playing music that is audible to them? Don't they have that right? 

Then turn it around.  If I play fast and loose with the rules, should you be required to do so too, just because it bothers me when you insist on playing strictly?

Of course not.  I'll simply either accept your style of play, or play with someone else.  

 

Btw, it's worth noting that were straying a bit off the OP, and no one is advocating blasting music or otherwise intruding when another group is on th tee box which was the original post.

[jamo]

I think the guiding rules of just "don't be an asshole" and "be courteous to others" should really be all this thread needs. 

[Fourputt]

28 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Maybe yes, maybe no.  Certainly not in the case of a mandatory shared cart.  Should your entire group be forced not to smoke because I opted to join you?

 

Then turn it around.  If I play fast and loose with the rules, should you be required to do so too, just because it bothers me when you insist on playing strictly?

Of course not.  I'll simply either accept your style of play, or play with someone else.  

 

Btw, it's worth noting that were straying a bit off the OP, and no one is advocating blasting music or otherwise intruding when another group is on th tee box which was the original post.

You act as if it would be the end of the world if you had to turn off your music for a round.  Is it really that important to you?  Is it really that hard to live without tunes for 4 hours?  

I often don't even have my phone with me on the course, and if I do it's turned off and put away in my bag.  I sure as heck will never, ever, play any music, audible or not, when I'm on the golf course.  I tend to be rather grateful that I grew up in a less technological era, and I am able, and even prefer in some activities to go old school and enjoy the ambient sounds around me, be they sounds of nature or the less soothing, often cacophonous clatter of modern civilization.  

For golf it should be the former.  Golf is an inherently relaxed pastime in a more or less natural setting.  The sounds of nature should as much as possible supersede or take precedence over anything else.  I don't need or want your idea of "good" music (which might well agree with mine, but that isn't guaranteed) to be abrading my auditory nerves.  If you can hear it, the odds are very good that someone outside of your group can too.

[JonMA1]

7 minutes ago, jamo said:

I think the guiding rules of just "don't be an asshole" and "be courteous to others" should really be all this thread needs. 

Not just this thread. How about life in general?

1 hour ago, Fourputt said:

3 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

The number of people is almost irrelevant (other than common courtesy). If the rules allow it and one person wants to listen to the music, he/she has that prerogative.

Since it is both against the Rules of Golf and can also be an etiquette issue, I disagree with any who say that it's just a case of majority rules.

Since you quoted me, I'll reply to this. 

Apparently we both agree it isn't a "majority rules" issue. What we apparently disagree on is whether the rules of golf trump the rules of the golf course. I don't think they do except in tournament play.

Even if you and I abide by the rules, casual golfers usually do not. Even league play has bastardized the ROG. So if you're going to enforce Decision 14-3/17 during casual play, wouldn't other breaches in rules or etiquette (ones that effect others) need to be enforced? I think the rules argument is weak. The etiquette argument is much stronger. Unfortunately, even in the short time I've been playing I've seen an erosion of etiquette.

[David in FL]

31 minutes ago, jamo said:

I think the guiding rules of just "don't be an asshole" and "be courteous to others" should really be all this thread needs. 

You would think...

....but then the question becomes, at least for our somewhat tangential discussion, who's being discourteous?  The individual who wants to join another group but also insists that they abide by his preferences, or the group who has no objection to a stranger joining them, but does not wish to change their own style of play in doing so and only expects that the stranger will accept the manner in which the remainder of the group chooses to play?

[Fourputt]

Just now, JonMA1 said:

Not just this thread. How about life in general?

Since you quoted me, I'll reply to this. 

Apparently we both agree it isn't a "majority rules" issue. What we apparently disagree on is whether the rules of golf trump the rules of the golf course. I don't think they do except in tournament play.

Even if you and I abide by the rules, casual golfers usually do not. Even league play has bastardized the ROG. So if you're going to enforce Decision 14-3/17 during casual play, wouldn't other breaches in rules or etiquette (ones that effect others) need to be enforced? I think the rules argument is weak. The etiquette argument is much stronger. Unfortunately, even in the short time I've been playing I've seen an erosion of etiquette.

In casual play, etiquette trumps all - that's why it is Section 1 in the rule book.  Even the USGA acknowledges that good etiquette is as important to the overall game as the rules are.  Respect for the course and for the other players on the course is at the top of every player's responsibility, regardless of whether it's casual golf or serious competition. 

If what you do outside of the necessary actions of playing the game bothers or degrades the experience for another, then you are in the wrong, and it really doesn't matter if the course allows it.