Shaft confusion?

[Sinbin]

So I am having some shaft confusion. I've read all over the internet and forums to always error on the side of a "softer" shaft, and that the majority of men are hitting shafts that are too stiff for them. I also read that the effects of too stiff of a shaft are low shots to the right and too soft of a shaft are high draws. This mechanically doesn't make any sense to me, unless your highest point of acceleration is well before impact. From golf.about.com,  "The ball may tend to draw a bit more from the forward bending of the shaft at impact causing the face to rotate past square to be slightly closed." If you are accelerating through the impact as you are supposed to, a soft shaft club head would still be bent open behind the shaft at impact. At least to my understanding of physics. 

I bring this up because I have been fighting a high slice with my driver for years. I knew some of it was mechanics, swing plane and swinging too hard but always had an embedded itch that the damn club face was lagging too far behind. I have done work on a simulator to understand and fix my swing plane and I hit my irons well. But I could never get the driver to go straight unless I slowed down my swing quite a bit. This is a very unsatisfying and un-athletic fix in my head and put an artificial ceiling on my game. I had planned on going to a pro and being fitted for a driver properly at the end of the season, but when a great offer showed up I took a gamble. I ignored all the information above and went with my gut and got an extra stiff shaft. I definitely seem to be hitting the new driver much straighter and a better height. Is this a placebo effect? Something else? I know that regular/stiff/etc are arbitrary and there are no standards, so I tried to compare weight, torque and kickpoint. Torque and bend are the same from all I can find, but my old shaft was 58 grams( I think) and the new one is 76. I do have a good swing speed, over 100mph I'm sure. My inexpensive simulator clocks me at 110-115, but Im not sure if I believe it. 

My new driver has a 60 day money back guarantee, so Im  trying to get help understanding whether this is in my head, new driver love, or a stiffer shaft was the correct fix for me despite all the info to the opposite. Thanks for your time and hit em well!      

[Kalnoky]

1 hour ago, Sinbin said:

I could never get the driver to go straight unless I slowed down my swing quite a bit. This is a very unsatisfying and un-athletic fix in my head

I had the exact same thought(s) a few months ago... My instructor made me slow way down and take a big shoulder turn with the driver. And man, that was pretty revolutionary advice for me.

You probably are swinging 100+ It's really not that hard to do if you are in reasonably good shape. I'm not a physicist, but I'm pretty sure the head is out in front of the shaft at impact, kind of like a whip. Maybe somebody here can correct me. 

 

Edited August 30, 2016 by Kalnoky

[WUTiger]

Ask yourself this: is your goal to be a golf club designer, or to find a driver that works for you?

1 hour ago, Sinbin said:

...I had planned on going to a pro and being fitted for a driver properly at the end of the season, but when a great offer showed up I took a gamble....

So, if you want good distance and fairways, get on the launch monitor and see if you can get your driver zeroed in. If not, swap out before 60-day guarantee expires. A driver is not a great offer if it doesn't work for you.

I didn't mean to be harsh, but understanding shaftology will take lots of study. To get started on shaftology, see this recent thread: Shaft Flex 

Get your driver straightened out, and pick up details on how clubs work along the way. A good fitter can help explain the specifics of your case.

[Sinbin]

13 hours ago, WUTiger said:

Ask yourself this: is your goal to be a golf club designer, or to find a driver that works for you?

I want to understand and make educated decisions on equipment and swing. I firmly believe in having a solid understanding of the fundamentals of anything you want to excel at. Good, not lucky.

13 hours ago, WUTiger said:

I didn't mean to be harsh, but understanding shaftology will take lots of study. To get started on shaftology, see this recent thread: Shaft Flex 

Get your driver straightened out, and pick up details on how clubs work along the way. A good fitter can help explain the specifics of your case.

Study doesnt scare me, I will definitely read through that post. Thank you.

My driver is straightened out, and I'm ecstatic! On my simulator, I hit 24/25 shots within 15 yards of my target line while swinging 95%ish. I want to understand why. I made a shaft change opposite of all the internet golf knowledge and it worked perfect. I do not think I am a unique butterfly and exempt, so I am trying to find help identifying the variable Im missing. My closest fitter with a launch monitor is 4 hours away, which is why I came to this community.

[deadon500]

To me the head needs to fit my eye.  The shaft is the engine of the club if its it fits you  that is the key......

[TourSpoon]

A few years ago I had a 3 wood that I bought with a custom shaft that I thought was a player's stiff, and it felt like a pole especially compared to my driver and long irons. I played with it for a while and found myself subconsciously going after it. I finally took it in and while all my other clubs where flexing at a stiff range, the 3 wood was at an X-stiff. I sought a 3 wood that fit me and matched the rest of the bag so that I could make my normal swing with it. Lesson learned! 

So now, if I ever think about a new club, I spec it out with a flex reading and then to the launch monitor to make sure it fits my swing and the rest of my bag. You can't trust what the manufacturer puts on the shaft, you need to test it, especially if you buy something off the rack or off the internet.  

If your driver is close to where you need it, you should be able to play with it, but its better to get it fit to you and its more fine tuned. But in the ballpark with flex and torque will not give you a crazy dispersion like something that is just totally wrong. 

 

[Spitfisher]

Straight & accurate...... supersedes distance 100% of the time

[Jeremie Boop]

Just now, Spitfisher said:

Straight & accurate...... supersedes distance 100% of the time

Not really.

[Spitfisher]

3 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

Not really.

 Enlighten us

 

in the context of this discussion it most certainly does

Edited September 6, 2016 by Spitfisher

[Jeremie Boop]

It's already been covered multiple times on the site. Straight *fairway* and 150 out is not better than in the rough and 80 out. Proximity to the hole is the biggest influence on lower score. That's not to say that accuracy isn't important, but your statement wasn't correct because straight and accurate does not supersede distance 100% of the time.

[Spitfisher]

6 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

It's already been covered multiple times on the site. Straight *fairway* and 150 out is not better than in the rough and 80 out. Proximity to the hole is the biggest influence on lower score. That's not to say that accuracy isn't important, but your statement wasn't correct because straight and accurate does not supersede distance 100% of the time.

Trust me it does. When was the last time you hit a tee shot in the rough 70 yards further than the same tee shot clubs head speed etc going straight down the fairway?  70 yards, the fact that you sliced or faded it increased the spin of the ball closer to 4000-6000+ rpms. the effective distance lost, based on that drag alone would make your drive at least 20-30%

And yet despite this degradation of distance you are still 70 yards further? 

I don't mean this to be condescending but when you break  thru to half of your posted index, say down to a 6-8 handicap, this will be glaring truth, Hitting fairways and greens in regulations is the cornerstone to lower golf scores. Thank you

 

[Jeremie Boop]

3 minutes ago, Spitfisher said:

Trust me it does. When was the last time you hit a tee shot in the rough 70 yards further than the same tee shot clubs head speed etc going straight down the fairway?  70 yards, the fact that you sliced or faded it increased the spin of the ball closer to 4000-6000+ rpms. the effective distance lost, based on that drag alone would make your drive at least 20-30%

And yet despite this degradation of distance you are still 70 yards further? 

I don't mean this to be condescending but when you break  thru to half of your posted index, say down to a 6-8 handicap, this will be glaring truth, Hitting fairways and greens in regulations is the cornerstone to lower golf scores. Thank you

 

We may not even be completely disagreeing here, same distance from the hole and in the fairway is definitely better than same distance and in the rough. However, shorter and straighter is not necessarily better than long and offline, depending on lie/obstacles. I'm simply stating that if you are closer to the hole you have a better chance at a lower score most of the time. That is why your statement of "Straight & accurate...... supersedes distance 100% of the time" is not correct, because someone can be offline and closer to the hole and be in better shape or have a better chance at scoring. It's possible I'm not explaining this clearly, hopefully someone else who understands what I'm saying will come in and give a better explanation.

[Spitfisher]

can't wait

[Piz]

My drives did not come down out of the stratosphere until I began using an 83 gram, X flex shaft.  I use R flex steel in my irons and S flex graphite in my hybrid and 5 wood.  It appears that the longer the club is - the stiffer I need the tip section to be.  That makes sense.  There is no reason to suspect that everyone with the same, or similar, club head speed achieves that speed in exactly the same way.  If the swing is different; the stress on the shaft will be different.  In other words: performance is the ultimate arbiter.

[JxQx]

Swing tempo and release seem to have a lot more to do with shaft flex than just club head speed. It also doesn't help that there isn't any industry standard on shaft flex.

[CarlSpackler]

1 hour ago, Jeremie Boop said:

It's possible I'm not explaining this clearly, hopefully someone else who understands what I'm saying will come in and give a better explanation.

I would, but I'm guessing that it would be a waste of my time and it's already been discussed a bazillion times on this forum. 

[colin007]

12 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

I would, but I'm guessing that it would be a waste of my time and it's already been discussed a bazillion times on this forum. 

yeha, same here.  hes been here for 3 years and hasnt read the multiple threads written by people who have forgotten more golf than he has ever learned. oh well. horse, water.

[newtogolf]

2 hours ago, Spitfisher said:

Straight & accurate...... supersedes distance 100% of the time

Maybe when your index is lowered you'll understand why most pro's go for distance.