DQ or Not?

[Rulesman]

8 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

As to the Rules, the Committee is given fairly broad latitude in applying or not applying a DQ penalty.

 

Which rules?

[bkuehn1952]

4 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

Which rules?

33-7 was my reference.

[Martyn W]

1 hour ago, bkuehn1952 said:

33-7 was my reference.

33-7 is for use in 'exceptional individual cases'. I don't believe this case is exceptional since it is covered by Rules/Decisions cited in this thread.

33-7 is a lot like 1-4 and should only be invoked if the situation is not contemplated by the Rules. In 30+ years of officiating I have used 33-7 less than half a dozen times.

[Rulesman]

11 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

33-7 was my reference.

"exceptional individual cases" does not sound like fairly broad latitude to me. 

[David in FL]

On September 15, 2016 at 5:50 PM, Martyn W said:

33-7 is for use in 'exceptional individual cases'. I don't believe this case is exceptional since it is covered by Rules/Decisions cited in this thread.

33-7 is a lot like 1-4 and should only be invoked if the situation is not contemplated by the Rules. In 30+ years of officiating I have used 33-7 less than half a dozen times.

I don't want to get OT here, but could you give an example or two of those times where 33-7 would be appropriate?

[Buckeyebowman]

This thread is an excellent example of why probably 99% of amateur golfers don't give a single crap about the rules of golf!

Well, unless it's costing them money!

[iacas]

27 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

This thread is an excellent example of why probably 99% of amateur golfers don't give a single crap about the rules of golf!

Doesn't mean they shouldn't, or that it justifies their ignorance.

[onthehunt526]

I honestly think it's silly to DQ the whole team.

 It is the responsibility of the individual player to make sure the individual holes are correct. The arithmetic is NOT the responsibility of the player.

A lot of you guys are quoting subsections of rule 33. I don't have a decisions book handy and it doesn't address team aggregate stroke play, specifically, from what I can see. 

It seems like Team DQ is a little harsh here, Individual DQ is more of a correct ruling. 

[Fourputt]

51 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

I honestly think it's silly to DQ the whole team.

 It is the responsibility of the individual player to make sure the individual holes are correct. The arithmetic is NOT the responsibility of the player.

A lot of you guys are quoting subsections of rule 33. I don't have a decisions book handy and it doesn't address team aggregate stroke play, specifically, from what I can see. 

It seems like Team DQ is a little harsh here, Individual DQ is more of a correct ruling. 

The incorrect individual scores led to a team score being incorrect.  It is the team's responsibility to make certain that each hole score marked on the team scorecard is correct.  Returning a card with incorrect hole scores is a disqualification penalty.  Since the card represents the selected team hole scores, the team is disqualified.

At least, that's how I see it.  

[Rulesman]

2 hours ago, Fourputt said:

The incorrect individual scores led to a team score being incorrect.  It is the team's responsibility to make certain that each hole score marked on the team scorecard is correct.  Returning a card with incorrect hole scores is a disqualification penalty.  Since the card represents the selected team hole scores, the team is disqualified.

At least, that's how I see it.  

"Team scores" do not appear in the Rules of Golf

[iacas]

6 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

It is the responsibility of the individual player to make sure the individual holes are correct. The arithmetic is NOT the responsibility of the player.

That didn't happen. A hole score was wrong. It wasn't an arithmetic error.

[Asheville]

Rulesman is correct (as usual) "team score" isn't a Rules of Golf issue. A Rules debate about the Committee's decision here is as useful as debating a Committee's ruling in a scramble.

[Fourputt]

5 hours ago, Rulesman said:

"Team scores" do not appear in the Rules of Golf

In that case, since apparently competition was played under the Rules of Golf, wouldn't you think that this is an equity issue?  In which case, if the rules don't specifically give any reference to a team score, wouldn't you extrapolate that since the team returned a card with an incorrect score, then in equity, the team is disqualified?  There certainly are situations where a side is disqualified, so why can't that translate to a team?  

I think you are trying to be too literal in stating that the rules don't apply to a team score.  In that case, a great number of high school tournaments would have no support from the rules for any situation involving the aggregate team score.  That seems to me to be in contradiction to the intent and spirit of the rules.

[onthehunt526]

Quote

 

As Erik stated before its best 4 out of 5 scores, so if one player is DQ'ed the team can still turn in an aggregate score just all 4 other scores count.

[TourSpoon]

I just caught that the incorrect scorecard was reported after the competition was closed (the next morning to be exact). I know that during competition, I have have seen individuals being DQed and the team drops that score, but I am thinking that since the competition was closed, this is a new situation as the team now has submitted and attested to the team score. Perhaps that is the reason for the team DQ, which makes sense now. 

[Rulesman]

4 hours ago, TourSpoon said:

I just caught that the incorrect scorecard was reported after the competition was closed (the next morning to be exact). I know that during competition, I have have seen individuals being DQed and the team drops that score, but I am thinking that since the competition was closed, this is a new situation as the team now has submitted and attested to the team score. Perhaps that is the reason for the team DQ, which makes sense now. 

Which Rule of Golf is applicable?

It would have to be a Competition Regulation it could not be a Condition of Competition. But was such a regulation published?

 

Edited September 17, 2016 by Rulesman

[TourSpoon]

4 hours ago, Rulesman said:

Which Rule of Golf is applicable

It would have to be a Competition Regulation it could not be a Condition of Competition. But was such a regulation published?

 

Good question, and I am not sure how this is handled in a NCAA tournament,. I am only thinking that the competition is closed, the committee is disbanded, and the team affirmed their final team score which turns out to be incorrect,

Edited September 18, 2016 by TourSpoon

[iacas]

11 hours ago, Fourputt said:

In that case, since apparently competition was played under the Rules of Golf, wouldn't you think that this is an equity issue?  In which case, if the rules don't specifically give any reference to a team score, wouldn't you extrapolate that since the team returned a card with an incorrect score, then in equity, the team is disqualified?  There certainly are situations where a side is disqualified, so why can't that translate to a team?

The team doesn't turn in a score. It's an individual score.