Arms first to close face?

[Ernest Jones]

I realise that solutions vary depending on what else is going your swing and that it is difficult to comment without video, so I pose this in a very general sense. 

I have always struggled with slicing my driver and 3w. No issues with long irons and hybrids. 

Typically these slices start right and continue right. Swing more rightwards will usually just turn it into a mega block of epic proportions.  It seems obvious to me that, in my case, my issue is more about the club face than the path. With the face so open, my path is bound to be to the left of it, guaranteeing it curves to the right.

So, with this in mind, I hit a bucket of drivers today with the thought/feel of starting my arms down first, like WAY first, to help close the face. Felt odd but was definitely doing a better job of "squaring the face". Miss was a low pull, but mostly I was hitting high fades with a few high draws here and there, all looked very playable. 

Reflecting back on various evolvr lesson, I remember Stephen at one point had me working on that exact feel. I even had a drill with an alignment rod through my belt loops to help visualize getting my hands down fast enough that they cleared before the rod got in the way. 

Now, this runs very contrary to to the feels that get me hitting solid, high irons but those feels have never translated to the woods. 

So...can any y'all share some thoughts on this?

[Ernest Jones]

tl;dr

Generally speaking, will getting the arms down faster/sooner help to get the face more online at impact?

[14ledo81]

That definitely works for me to.  If I get pushy/slicey, I use a swing thought of more arms.  If I get pull/hooky, i use a swing thought of swing more with the body . 

Not certain this is a good way to go about it, but it works for me.

[Ernest Jones]

2 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

That definitely works for me to.  If I get pushy/slicey, I use a swing thought of more arms.  If I get pull/hooky, i use a swing thought of swing more with the body . 

Not certain this is a good way to go about it, but it works for me.

Yeah, it seems like the low pulls were when I forgot about the body. Glad to hear I'm not alone in using this feel. For the record, I can't imagine using this feel for an iron (even a 4i), but the woods are a different animal all together.  Gonna make this a winter project. Hoping to actually play done golf next year, this year was a wash. About 4 rounds and maybe 5 trips to the range. 

Might have to quite my job if this keeps up...

[colin007]

Hmm...this is interesting, considering that I struggle mightily with that exact same miss. I'm semi decent with the irons, I hit my long irons better than my short irons, but by and large the driver is like playing Russian Roulette. I'll have to see if this yields any results for me...

[Ernest Jones]

34 minutes ago, colin007 said:

Hmm...this is interesting, considering that I struggle mightily with that exact same miss. I'm semi decent with the irons, I hit my long irons better than my short irons, but by and large the driver is like playing Russian Roulette. I'll have to see if this yields any results for me...

The feel is that the arms start first and their momentum is what initiated the turn. I would never in a million years advocate that for irons, but it seems to work with the driver. But, hey, who knows, it was one bucket. Next time it might just be 60 low hooks in a row... Stupid game. Lol. 

[Gunther]

For me, I don't think I'd label it "arms first".  I had this issue (push slice) for much of the last year and a half.  I overcame it by adjusting my grip just a touch, a tiny bit stronger with my left hand.  Coupled with the feel of "covering" the ball.  Hard to describe that feel but it's essentially a timing thing.  If I do end up "arms first", that's a sure pull hook for me.  Happy that works for you and others but if that were my swing thought, I'd be in the left rough or woods every time.

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, Gunther said:

For me, I don't think I'd label it "arms first".  I had this issue (push slice) for much of the last year and a half.  I overcame it by adjusting my grip just a touch, a tiny bit stronger with my left hand.  Coupled with the feel of "covering" the ball.  Hard to describe that feel but it's essentially a timing thing.  If I do end up "arms first", that's a sure pull hook for me.  Happy that works for you and others but if that were my swing thought, I'd be in the left rough or woods every time.

But…it's not you.  Feel ain't real (mechanics), but the feel is very real to the individual.

@Ernest Jones, the feeling is probably fine. I doubt (feel ain't real) it's doing quite as much as you think, but you may be closed a bit more and that helps with that.

Remember also the feeling of your left shoulder ripping UP to start the downswing. Try a little of that in combination with your "arms first" feeling…

[Ernest Jones]

17 minutes ago, iacas said:

But…it's not you.  Feel ain't real (mechanics), but the feel is very real to the individual.

@Ernest Jones, the feeling is probably fine. I doubt (feel ain't real) it's doing quite as much as you think, but you may be closed a bit more and that helps with that.

Remember also the feeling of your left shoulder ripping UP to start the downswing. Try a little of that in combination with your "arms first" feeling…

Shoulder piece is my forever piece. I incorporate that with everything I try. That piece gets me the super high, booming irons. It's just never solved the woods, but trying to start the arms first, before the shoulder piece has yielded some promising results. Again, I would never try this with irons, don't need to, but I gotta find a solution to my driver or I'll never improve. 

[Gunther]

3 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

So...can any y'all share some thoughts on this?

 

2 hours ago, iacas said:

But…it's not you.  

Forgive me, perhaps I overstepped by offering my thoughts.

[Ernest Jones]

7 minutes ago, Gunther said:

 

Forgive me, perhaps I overstepped by offering my thoughts.

Your "golf" thoughts are welcome. Thank you. 

[Patch]

FWIW, with the clubs that are causing you grief, have you ever thought of opening/closing your grip (1/8" +/-)  just a little from your normal grip that you use with your other clubs? 

[Ernest Jones]

5 hours ago, Patch said:

FWIW, with the clubs that are causing you grief, have you ever thought of opening/closing your grip (1/8" +/-)  just a little from your normal grip that you use with your other clubs? 

Yes.  For whatever reason, it doesn't work. 

[boogielicious]

12 hours ago, Gunther said:

For me, I don't think I'd label it "arms first".  I had this issue (push slice) for much of the last year and a half.  I overcame it by adjusting my grip just a touch, a tiny bit stronger with my left hand.  Coupled with the feel of "covering" the ball.  Hard to describe that feel but it's essentially a timing thing.  If I do end up "arms first", that's a sure pull hook for me.  Happy that works for you and others but if that were my swing thought, I'd be in the left rough or woods every time.

That is what happens to me too if I feel like my arms start the downswing. In filming, it appears as my hands starting down too steep and the shaft steepens. I then go over the top and hook it. 

We all swing a bit different and our checkpoints are a bit different too. Lately, I have focused on swinging out more and that has helped straighten out the driver. I also moved the ball position back, which helped.

[bste]

Ernest, thank you.  

I have the same challenge you described.

Too much lag, hooding it, out to in.

 

[Mr. Desmond]

We're all different, and need different exxagerations. I can't think of the arms first. I'm all get to the top, stay there, let lower body initiate ... 

Good luck!

[Ernest Jones]

48 minutes ago, bste said:

Ernest, thank you.  

I have the same challenge you described.

Too much lag, hooding it, out to in.

 

Well, I guess you're welcome. I have no idea if this will help you, heck I don't even know if it help me. It was one thought and one bucket. The only reason I'm considering it may have merit is because an evolvr coach had me work on something like this a few years back. 

[bste]

Understand completely. Just nice to know I'm not alone. lol