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RussUK

"Playing From a Position" à la Jim Venetos

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1 hour ago, iacas said:

Super weak sauce here man. Having a discussion, and at the first sign of any push back - which is actually just trying to help you manage how you may be perceived - you bolt. Weak sauce. Almost as weak as Jim himself bolting instead of engaging in an honest discussion.

Hmm, I was told to go post in other threads - which I interpreted as to stop posting in this one - but maybe I interpreted it wrong?

I only come to this site when I get an email - which apparently happens when someone posts in a thread I previously have.

Which is the only reason I’m posting now - even though I checked the options to stop email notifications I still got one. Also, doesn’t seem like it’s possible to delete my account - looked for that too.

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6 minutes ago, Robos said:

Hmm, I was told to go post in other threads - which I interpreted as to stop posting in this one - but maybe I interpreted it wrong?

You did. And you weren't told - it was a suggestion for your benefit.

6 minutes ago, Robos said:

I only come to this site when I get an email - which apparently happens when someone posts in a thread I previously have.

You're "following" the only two topics you've posted in.

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1 hour ago, Robos said:

Hmm, I was told to go post in other threads - which I interpreted as to stop posting in this one - but maybe I interpreted it wrong?

I only come to this site when I get an email - which apparently happens when someone posts in a thread I previously have.

Which is the only reason I’m posting now - even though I checked the options to stop email notifications I still got one. Also, doesn’t seem like it’s possible to delete my account - looked for that too.

When someone posts only in one thread, it could be interpreted as them having a vested interest in that thread. I’m this case, it is a swing method. Because you don’t seem interested in any other thread, some may think you are promoting this method. This would be unfortunate. We all came to this site because we like to talk golf. It would be sad if you only joined this site to just promote this swing method. There is so much more here. 

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9 hours ago, boogielicious said:

When someone posts only in one thread, it could be interpreted as them having a vested interest in that thread. I’m this case, it is a swing method. Because you don’t seem interested in any other thread, some may think you are promoting this method. This would be unfortunate. We all came to this site because we like to talk golf. It would be sad if you only joined this site to just promote this swing method. There is so much more here. 

I like discussing alternative swings - eg stack and tilt, and other methods I see out there. If there was an area to just talk that I’d be all over it. But yeah, I have little interest discussing much else aside from the mevo when it comes to golf - I have other hobbies too.

Also, not sure how people can interpret me as a shill - I’ve openly stated problems with the JV swing. I just tell it like I see it. There are good things about the swing, there are bad.

For example, I no longer use the JV swing as prescribed - my left knee gets sore after a heavy range session.

And I’m being honest when I say JV’s fade and draw are the exact swing just different angles of attack based on his setup. Not only do I see it in the pictures above, but I also experience it.

 

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5 minutes ago, Robos said:

And I’m being honest when I say JV’s fade and draw are the exact swing just different angles of attack based on his setup. Not only do I see it in the pictures above, but I also experience it.

The photos above show plenty of differences beyond the slight setup changes.

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11 minutes ago, Robos said:

Also, not sure how people can interpret me as a shill -

To be clear, I am not suggesting you are necessarily. But in the past we have had people join who misrepresented themselves as enthusiastic users of products, methods, swing gurus, who turned out to be from that company. So naturally we moderators have to be careful as self promotion is not allowed on the site. We do allow paid advertising at times, but not the sneaky kind.

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Is this basically a one leg drill but with restricted lead hip pivot?

I think people are often limiting their potential in life by thinking there is only one truth/way to do something. Biggest revelations in my job/hobbies/life has come from listening to different opinions/ideas. Often times the same thing has been said in two different ways and it has opened up two unique functions.

 

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13 hours ago, Tepi90 said:

 

Is this basically a one leg drill but with restricted lead hip pivot?

 

Well not really. The hips aren’t being restricted because you set up by pivoting to your lead foot thus closing your stance. Then you grip the club. Then it’s a matter of staying very still in the backswing with only your arms moving to swing the club back along your body. Due to the setup position you create a circular, shallow descending strike with the club traveling in to out.

 

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I was thinking of trying Veneto's swing because I am at the end of my rope with the conventional golf swing, so much so that if I don't improve I am going to leave the game forever this year.  I am beyond frustrated with this game.  My lessons with a PGA pro did nothing but make it worse.

Now after reading this whole thread I have my doubts that anything can help.

This method he is teaching reminds me of some Youtube golf channel that was teaching some swing called the "Channel Lock" method with the same type set up and sort of reminds me of what Bobby Lopez was mentioning during one of the "Be Better Golf" videos about keeping your shirt buttons behind the ball.

Oh well, I will give it a try anyhow as I am apparently lost and desperate enough to try anything at this point. 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, MOODY said:

I was thinking of trying Veneto's swing because I am at the end of my rope with the conventional golf swing, so much so that if I don't improve I am going to leave the game forever this year.  I am beyond frustrated with this game.  My lessons with a PGA pro did nothing but make it worse.

Now after reading this whole thread I have my doubts that anything can help.

This method he is teaching reminds me of some Youtube golf channel that was teaching some swing called the "Channel Lock" method with the same type set up and sort of reminds me of what Bobby Lopez was mentioning during one of the "Be Better Golf" videos about keeping your shirt buttons behind the ball.

Oh well, I will give it a try anyhow as I am apparently lost and desperate enough to try anything at this point. 

 

 

I use JV method. I recommend you try it. As stated in the thread it’s limitations are swing speed, trouble lies ( large downhill, side hill) which Jim won’t agree with but are simply true. I’m playing some really nice golf with this method. I think it’s excellent for those of us who just don’t have the talent for the ‘conventional’ swing. I’m able to slip off this swing sometimes and do a ‘modified’ JV swing when I need a shot that’s difficult to do with a closed stance. Otherwise I believe you’ll enjoy golf again if you do this method correctly.

Note: Most of my criticisms of this method are of Jim’s repetitive claims of the conventional swing being ‘wrong.’ I also don’t believe JV swings his driver 118mph with no weight shift. JV also teaches that the short game is where strokes are saved, not the long game. 
 

 

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1 minute ago, Vinsk said:

I use JV method. I recommend you try it. As stated in the thread it’s limitations are swing speed, trouble lies ( large downhill, side hill) which Jim won’t agree with but are simply true. I’m playing some really nice golf with this method. I think it’s excellent for those of us who just don’t have the talent for the ‘conventional’ swing. I’m able to slip off this swing sometimes and do a ‘modified’ JV swing when I need a shot that’s difficult to do with a closed stance. Otherwise I believe you’ll enjoy golf again if you do this method correctly.

Note: Most of my criticisms of this method are of Jim’s repetitive claims of the conventional swing being ‘wrong.’ I also don’t believe JV swings his driver 118mph with no weight shift. JV also teaches that the short game is where strokes are saved, not the long game. 
 

 

I get you, it is really fishy that the guy will not post any swing data or videos of him hitting multiple long clubs at a target.  I have hit rock bottom so I have nothing to lose and this is sort of close to stack and tilt which is where I was going anyway..... just need a glimmer of hope and the ability to get my ball in the air again.  The draw aspect has me worried as I am hooker already, I cannot keep my club face from shutting down at the ball for the life of me.

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2 hours ago, MOODY said:

just need a glimmer of hope and the ability to get my ball in the air again.  The draw aspect has me worried as I am hooker already, I cannot keep my club face from shutting down at the ball for the life of me.

Without seeing your swing it sounds like you’re just getting the face too closed at impact. There are a number of reasons why this could be happening.

If you can get good video of your swing, I suggest you start a swing thread.

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On 5/25/2020 at 10:17 AM, MOODY said:

I was thinking of trying Veneto's swing because I am at the end of my rope with the conventional golf swing, so much so that if I don't improve I am going to leave the game forever this year.  I am beyond frustrated with this game.  My lessons with a PGA pro did nothing but make it worse.

Now after reading this whole thread I have my doubts that anything can help.

This method he is teaching reminds me of some Youtube golf channel that was teaching some swing called the "Channel Lock" method with the same type set up and sort of reminds me of what Bobby Lopez was mentioning during one of the "Be Better Golf" videos about keeping your shirt buttons behind the ball.

Oh well, I will give it a try anyhow as I am apparently lost and desperate enough to try anything at this point. 

 

 

Years ago I commented in this thread that I was happy using a modified JV swing.  Until you mentioned CHANNEL LOCK, I hadn't heard of it.  I watched some videos and found that because so few were picking up that swing, the guy was not doing anymore videos.  I haven't taken Channel Lock to the course, which is the only real test, but I have hit hundreds of shots out of my backyard (to an empty space on the course next to my yard) and I am landing balls in a very tight circle with all irons.  Also, some of the drivers I hit were the longest I have hit it years.  We have a shoot out this Friday, can't wait.  As compared to JV's swing, Channel Lock seems more akin to the "universal" swing I used for many years, so it seems more natural.  We shall see.

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Another example where Jim has a concept but then proceeds to make false claims. The spine rotates. The thoracic and cervical spine regions are designed to do so. That’s not an opinion. That’s anatomy/physiology 101. I can see where a traditional swing may cause more stress to the spine than his method. But how he goes about explaining it is 100% nonsense.

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23 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Another example where Jim has a concept but then proceeds to make false claims. The spine rotates. The thoracic and cervical spine regions are designed to do so. That’s not an opinion. That’s anatomy/physiology 101. I can see where a traditional swing may cause more stress to the spine than his method. But how he goes about explaining it is 100% nonsense.

I assumed when he said "Spine Angle" he meant the extent to which he is leaning backward away from the camera as he talks. Did anyone else find it distracting how far back he was leaning? 

Two things - One, it always bugs me when somebody says "During traditional instruction...." I've had lots of instruction over the course of my golf life, I'm not sure how much was traditional. I don't ever remember being told the "spine is the center of your swing." Maybe I was, but I don't recall being told that. 

Two - I think he actually says, if they followed his methods "Tour Pros would be better".... I found that interesting. 

Edited by ChetlovesMer

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First, I'll say this. I can't say for certain I've never said "you rotate round your spine" or anything like it. I probably have. I could probably find me saying this here on TST in a few minutes.

But still, there's a context to those types of comments. The context is usually someone rotating their shoulders in a way that's not "around their spine" or whose head is moving around a bunch or something.

That said, I don't feel particularly bad nit-picking at this video a little bit, because of two things:

  • Jim makes the fatal mistake of lumping "traditional swing" people into one giant bucket. It's dumb to do this, for many, many reasons.
  • Jim gets basic facts wrong.
6 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Another example where Jim has a concept but then proceeds to make false claims.

Yeah.

6 hours ago, Vinsk said:

The spine rotates. The thoracic and cervical spine regions are designed to do so. That’s not an opinion. That’s anatomy/physiology 101.

Bingo. Basic facts here. The spine DOES rotate. It twists. It also extends and flexes, in 360°.

6 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I can see where a traditional swing may cause more stress to the spine than his method.

You can also, as a doctor, see that any time anyone does something like play at the PGA Tour level, that their bodies take a bit of a beating. Any sport. Look at the ankles of an old basketball player. The bodies (and minds) of an old football player. The knees of a catcher. The shoulder or elbow of an old pitcher.

The backs of a high-level golfer.

That's what it takes to perform at that high of a level. I am as yet unaware of anyone who has done the @Jim Venetos swing and played on the PGA Tour at all, let alone for a long time like many of the game's best. Like Tiger or Rory or Day. So it appears as though the choice for them might be between the following options:

  • Play on the PGA Tour, at a high level, winning a major or more…
  • Play the Jim Venetos swing, maybe don't injure your back as badly (I'm convinced Jason Day would get injured flossing), and never make it past, what, a Texas mini tour?

Almost nobody is going to choose B if A is a real possibility. They'll risk some injury. Jim also ignores the golfers who have long careers without much injury issue. Jack's back was mostly okay - his hips gave out, IIRC. Fred Couples had a famously balky back but played and contented at Augusta into his 50s. Tom Watson nearly won the British Open at 59. Etc.

6 hours ago, Vinsk said:

But how he goes about explaining it is 100% nonsense.

Also, I didn't care for the part where he said PGA Tour players would be "better" if they got rid of traditional instruction or something. I skimmed that part, but c'mon @Jim Venetos, that's a hell of a claim. If the JV swing was better, we'd have people out there winning majors with it and staying super healthy, no? JV has been teaching this for 30 years or so, hasn't he?


Also, mostly in fun, JV says "your left arm" and "your right arm connect to the club." But, they don't either. Your fingers connect. Maybe even your hands. If your arms are "connecting" to the club, you're doing something wrong. Or you're using an arm-lock putter.

And then he says your left shoulder is the center of the swing (I think). Well, your left shoulder isn't that far from your spine, and it's definitely not "connected" to the club, so…

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I’ve considered the possibility that many people lose interest in pursuing his method due to his incorrect statements. I know @JimVenetosGolf thinks he’s right. But you can’t just answer with ‘try my swing’ or ‘ join my school.’ For instruction sure. But when you’re asked to explain the science and show the data of said claims....you have to produce. 
I noticed many of JV’s followers still believe in things like short game being the most important factor to improving scores. Hell one of his main guys ( who has since left) was making YouTube videos about his journey with this method. He still used the old argument, ‘ Putts contribute the most strokes to a round...putting is where you’ll improve your score...that’s what separates the pros from the amateurs.’ Of course that’s completely bogus.

I’m not sure why Jim just doesn’t promote his method for what it is. A pretty solid method to play some good golf. But it’s not a method for elite golf. 
 

@JimVenetosGolf I don’t think showing your 118mph driver swing on a TrackMan is in any way an unreasonable request nor disrespectful. It’s 2020. Let’s see the swing and the stats on your +7 hcp golfer. We don’t have to prove the ‘traditional’ swing is successful. We have years of the best golfers in the world winning with it. 
 
I really like this swing and continue to play it. But enough with the ‘ pros are inconsistent’ and ‘ they’d be better with this method’ jargon. 

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