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Bogey Golfers Only (Index 16-22) / Breaking 90 Topic


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Posted

I'm knocking on the door of this thread....just a few decimal points away from 22 and trending down!

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Posted

Here's a tip or three...

GIR - if you are having trouble reaching the green - play from the next tee up, you will be confronted with more controllable approach shots.

Kill the penalties - if off the tee you can't keep the ball in the fairway, choose a club that you can hit more accurately. If it is questionable that you can clear a hazard, play safe. KEEP THE BALL IN PLAY!

Short game counts even for the pros, moreso for you! Wedges - pitches, chips, bunker shots can make or break your round - PRACTICE these till you are confident in the results.

Putting - try to give yourself a good opportunity of at least a 2 putt (this is where your approach shot is critical). Three or more putts on a hole simply destroy your game. Yesterday I had 8 GIRs and only converted 4 with 2 or less putts - cost me 4 strokes. Back to the putting green for me!

Craig

:wilsonstaff: - FG Tour F5
:wilsonstaff: - Fybrid 3W 15*, FY 19.5*, 4H 24*
:wilsonstaff: - FG 51 Tour Blade 4-9
:wilson: - Harmonized 50, 55, 60
Old Master - TZ Putter


Posted
40 minutes ago, CR McDivot said:

Here's a tip or three...

GIR - if you are having trouble reaching the green - play from the next tee up, you will be confronted with more controllable approach shots

Short game counts even for the pros, moreso for you! Wedges - pitches, chips, bunker shots can make or break your round - PRACTICE these till you are confident in the results.

Putting - try to give yourself a good opportunity of at least a 2 putt (this is where your approach shot is critical). Three or more putts on a hole simply destroy your game. 

Heres the biggest problem, this can be dependant financially, or based on where you live, but for example around me, theres about 2 golf courses with practice putting greens that are of a reasonable size and weren't built almost completely flat lol, making it difficult to practice a wide range of putts, also, there is not one single practice facility at any course in my area that is large enough on the perimeter to practice anything more than chip shots from about 2ft off the green, and practice bunkers?  Lol.  Not a chance.  Heck, 90% of the courses around me don't even have sand traps on the course.  If I had one course in my area with a tour-like practice facility I'd be going daily just to work on my short game.  I'd imagine a lot of people who can't afford membership at an exclusive, tour-like course with tour like facilities are in the same boat.

Callaway XR 9.5 + 1, Taylormade R15 3 Wood, Burner 3 Rescue, Callaway XHot 5H, Warbird 4H, Nike Vapor Fly 6-AW Irons, Titleist Vokey 54, 60 Wedges, Taylormade Rossa Fontana Putter, Srixon Z-Star Tour Yellow.

Best Score 2017:  82 (Traditions at the Glen, Par 70)

Favorite Course - Conklin Players Club (Par 72) - Best Score 86


  • 1 month later...
Posted

I'm at a new low of 21.6, but I am really struggling and fear my handicap is going to start regressing.  I have simply lost any semblance of being able to hit my driver consistently.  All other aspects of my game are dialed in, but the driver is killing me. 

I've done everything i can think of. I have my own swing thread, I've done tons of research of the instructional threads on here;  I've put in hours of practice (on and off the course).  I just seem to be going nowhere on that one club.  It's mind-boggling because all of the work has lead to an amazing improvement in my irons and woods, but nothing on the big stick.

Now, before anyone tells me to put the driver away and just play my 3 wood, I want to be honest and admit that I do not see that as an option for me personally.  If I am ever going to improve my overall game I simply have to be able to hit the driver.  I am not forcing the driver onto holes where it does not belong, but if the hole calls for a driver I need to be able to hit it.

I am only hitting about 1/3 of fairways. My misses are pretty evenly split between left and right.  That surprised me when I looked at my stats because anecdotally I would have said that my misses were mostly left.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Antneye said:

I'm at a new low of 21.6, but I am really struggling and fear my handicap is going to start regressing.  I have simply lost any semblance of being able to hit my driver consistently.  All other aspects of my game are dialed in, but the driver is killing me. 

I've done everything i can think of. I have my own swing thread, I've done tons of research of the instructional threads on here;  I've put in hours of practice (on and off the course).  I just seem to be going nowhere on that one club.  It's mind-boggling because all of the work has lead to an amazing improvement in my irons and woods, but nothing on the big stick.

Now, before anyone tells me to put the driver away and just play my 3 wood, I want to be honest and admit that I do not see that as an option for me personally.  If I am ever going to improve my overall game I simply have to be able to hit the driver.  I am not forcing the driver onto holes where it does not belong, but if the hole calls for a driver I need to be able to hit it.

I am only hitting about 1/3 of fairways. My misses are pretty evenly split between left and right.  That surprised me when I looked at my stats because anecdotally I would have said that my misses were mostly left.

None other than Dr. Jim Suttie states that all players (including professionals) are either better with their irons OR with their wedges and woods. This is due to the angle of attack. Given the statement about your dramatic iron game improvement, I would venture a guess that you're trapping v.s. sweeping the ball and therefore have a steeper, more V shaped swing. I know you don't want to shelve the driver, but at a 20+ handicap, what can it hurt? Hit it down the middle and play your game. If you need further encouragement, research the great Corey Pavin. He hit his 3 wood nearly as far as his driver but with much greater accuracy. I have put the driver away and gone with a 2 wood equivalent (the GX-7). If I absolutely zeroed my driver and then did the same with the GX-7, I'd be within 7-10 yards of my driver shot. I'm willing to sacrifice that tiny bit of distance to improve my # of fairways in regulation (nearly a 50% improvement). Just food for thought....


Posted

I think you are not alone in the way you are progressing. You'll advance, retreat, plateau, and each setback seems frustrating. 

Here's I do:

1. Go back to basics, and review my posture and grip. Do slow motion swings on video and see what's going on. Review my most recent lessons to keep those fresh too- bit don't get sidetracked in things that haven't been assigned you.

2. Post a good summary on the swing thread. Much like this one, but with some analysis of where you are and what you're working on.

3. Shift to a fitness/flexibility mode where you put your free time into that, and stop worrying about score for a while. The scores are what they are. The fitness/flexibility break can rejuvenate you.

4. Once you get feedback from an expert (via lesson or swing thread), get back to work on diligent practice.  The break from worrying about swing details can kinda help me absorb past lessons somehow. 

That's how I approach it all, and mostly just try not to get too down about it. It's a challenge, and a tough one. just know you're not alone!

My Swing


Driver: :ping: G30, Irons: :tmade: Burner 2.0, Putter: :cleveland:, Balls: :snell:

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Posted
9 minutes ago, Spooky said:

None other than Dr. Jim Suttie states that all players (including professionals) are either better with their irons OR with their wedges and woods. This is due to the angle of attack. Given the statement about your dramatic iron game improvement, I would venture a guess that you're trapping v.s. sweeping the ball and therefore have a steeper, more V shaped swing. I know you don't want to shelve the driver, but at a 20+ handicap, what can it hurt? Hit it down the middle and play your game. If you need further encouragement, research the great Corey Pavin. He hit his 3 wood nearly as far as his driver but with much greater accuracy. I have put the driver away and gone with a 2 wood equivalent (the GX-7). If I absolutely zeroed my driver and then did the same with the GX-7, I'd be within 7-10 yards of my driver shot. I'm willing to sacrifice that tiny bit of distance to improve my # of fairways in regulation (nearly a 50% improvement). Just food for thought....

I guess it is just a challenge that I feel the need to solve. You raise very fair points and I won't disregard the advice.  

When I am playing for money I will put the club away if it is not working, but when I am out playing just for me I feel the need to try to solve the problem.  I am quite stubborn apparently.......

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Posted (edited)

People quit the game because they can't get off the tee. IMHO the most important threshold in golf is learning to hit the driver. I think the biggest problem is people hit down on the driver like they do their irons. It's the same swing for both, but the driver feels very different. I think it's nearly impossible to figure out this feeling on your own. A good instructor will help you find it. The problem is most of the instructors (at least the ones I went to) don't want to "confuse" their students, so they spend weeks having you hit wedges and during this time you are unable to actually play any big boy golf. So you do what most impatient people do, and start trying to skip ahead in the textbook and figure out the driver on your own - and you get nowhere. All this to say, the driver reveals problems with the swing in general. So a small tweak to your irons will pay huge dividends with the driver. I think a good instructor will let you hit the driver right away, first lesson. He will teach both side by side - irons and driver. At least this is what (FINALLY) worked for me.  

Edited by Kalnoky
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  • 4 weeks later...
Posted

Threw down a nice 87 to ALMOST beat my buddy.  He got me by one with a 86! 

43 front 44 back with 5 pars on front and 3 pars on back, last 3 holes to close out.

Was a great fall match with a lil rain from holes 12 till 18.  No beer so that might have hampered our low scores but we will be at it again next week.  I will beat him again this year!!!

Driver: :callaway: Diablo
Woods: :callaway: Big Bertha 2 & 4
Irons: Miura MC 102's 3 - PW & Mizuno MP 67's 3 - W
Wedges: :mizuno: MP-R12 52* & 58*
Putters: :ping: WRX Ti4

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Posted

I shot 87 three times out in a row, about a month or so ago. Then I've gotten a little erratic and dipped back into the low and middle 90s. Penalties and flat out mishits, I've lost a little consistency for some reason. I believe the answer is focus, both at the range and on each individual shot. We won't talk about 3-putts. :)

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Posted
On 11/4/2013 at 5:33 AM, Meltdwhiskey said:

I wanted to offer a thought on strategy.  I don't largely get involved in actual swing mechanics and such - I more enjoy the strategy discussions. I feel strongly about this applying to we hackers, but it might apply to single digits as well.  Anyway - a buddy and I played this weekend and I realized I had been employing a strategy and had not really ever vocalized it.  He is about a 110 type golfer.

 

On a shortish par 4, I duffed my drive about 90 yards or something.  We get to my ball and I pull a 5i.  He asks me why I'm going iron when I have so much distance to now cover.  It occurred to me how many times I had seen him go with hybrid/fairway wood after a similar duff.  And many other folks over time.  I think the natural choice after a bad shot is to try to get back all you can in the next shot.  You have to right?  You're at a deficit now. But I'd guess a lot of blow-up holes get started this way.  Duffed drive --> long club off the deck --> now lying 3 in woods, pond, bunker or maybe even a lost ball.  Unless you hit a pretty good shot, I feel a snowman could be coming.

 

Unless it is really open, I think the smarter play is to lay back here.  Protecting bogey or maybe even double is a safer bet here than trying to get 200+ yards out of a shot and risking more trouble.  A bogey golfer getting that kind of distance off the deck, down the middle, around any trouble sounds risky to me.  And what is the payoff?  Just being closer really.  You still aren't going to green it.

 

Our normal routine is probably to get on in 3 and 2-putt for bogey.  So:

- At this point, you still have a good chance to do just that with 5i

- Even if you miss the green from 30-70 with your third shot, you are close and still have a chance to get up and down for bogey

- Even if it takes you 4 to get on and you 2-putt, it isn't as bad as it sounds.  You get bogey on most holes anyway, so getting double after a duffed tee shot is pretty much expected.  Make up for it with a par on a hole where you hit a better tee shot

 

Any thoughts from the bogey gallery?

I totally agree with you on this. I realized that in my game I totally improved my consistency with my drives and iron shots. It's the small stuff that's killing my score. Alot of rounds this season where I scored poorly was mainly due to duffed chips and 3 putts. Last season I struggled with a wicked slice, but I corrected it late season. My short game was very decent. This year I bought a new pair of vokeys and I switched my putter with the confidence that I would learn them. Well I'm back to my old putter and have the wedges dialed in. The last month I am always behind my mates off the tee. They go for par fives in 2, and I lay up. I found that I'm scoring almost the same now holding back and playing to my abilities. It's a funny game when you feel like you are playing well but after you count it up the beer tastes better than swallowing your pride 


  • 6 months later...
Posted

This is my goal for this season.  I was able to get a membership at a local course and will have the time to play consistently enough to lower my score now I need to continue to work on my strategy and approach. 

Driver: Taylormade RBZ :tmade: Irons: Titleist AP1 :titleist: PW-4 All other clubs are needing upgrading as I am able to afford it.

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Posted

I know I have the game to get below 20 this year..and maybe even farther...just need to keep working at it. I would love to have an average score around 90 so that my good rounds are in the 80s and the bad ones in the 90s....tired of not breaking 100 on a bad day. 

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Posted
45 minutes ago, HJJ003 said:

I know I have the game to get below 20 this year..and maybe even farther...just need to keep working at it. I would love to have an average score around 90 so that my good rounds are in the 80s and the bad ones in the 90s....tired of not breaking 100 on a bad day. 

Right there with you.  I would love a bad day to be mid 90’s and great day mid 80’s.   

 

 

  • Like 1

Driver: Taylormade RBZ :tmade: Irons: Titleist AP1 :titleist: PW-4 All other clubs are needing upgrading as I am able to afford it.

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Posted

The one thing I learned I think by accident was to forget about the score card and just play golf one hole a time. I was playing a round of golf when I was in the Air Force and I started out my usual way horrible. On the seventh hole I made one great miss under a tree branch and over a sand trap and it hit the green rolled down the hill and hit the flag stick and stopped next to the hole. After that I just started playing the par 4's on in two and two putt. The par 5'son in three and two putts. I got so focused that I stopped looking at the score card that I forgot about everything else. When I saw my score at then end of the round I nearly fainted. I had actually broke eighty. I realized two things: one I had a lot of fun while playing that round and two get out of your damn head and just play golf!


Posted
2 hours ago, The Hook Meister said:

The one thing I learned I think by accident was to forget about the score card and just play golf one hole a time... I got so focused that I stopped looking at the score card that I forgot about everything else. When I saw my score at then end of the round I nearly fainted. I had actually broke eighty. I realized two things: one I had a lot of fun while playing that round and two get out of your damn head and just play golf!

Amen! Each hole is a new opportunity - just play one hole at a time. History is past, nothing to be done about it - the present is an opportunity - the future is full of promise! :-P

Craig

:wilsonstaff: - FG Tour F5
:wilsonstaff: - Fybrid 3W 15*, FY 19.5*, 4H 24*
:wilsonstaff: - FG 51 Tour Blade 4-9
:wilson: - Harmonized 50, 55, 60
Old Master - TZ Putter


Posted
Spoiler

45-51 for a 96 .  The back 9 normall  plays easier but I let my self get rushed when two slow groups let me play through      Chips and putts are where I can make up some strokes 

 

Driver: Taylormade RBZ :tmade: Irons: Titleist AP1 :titleist: PW-4 All other clubs are needing upgrading as I am able to afford it.

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Note: This thread is 1806 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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  • Posts

    • They weren't necessarily short - I don't remember the exact specifics of all of it, but some of them were missing a little left or right or both. Day 1 they were landing on the edge and kicking on, where day 2 they were just missing and kicking down into the bunkers and did it a lot. I think all told I actually went into bunkers on 8 holes. Some of them were not good shots. Like a few examples, on 8, the pin was in the back. I hit it solidly, but pulled it and it went long, over the bunker into long grass. I had the ball in sandy earth with long grass around it and about a foot below my feet. That next shot I tried to do what I could but it went into the bunker in front of me. Into a footprint. That one I dug out of the footprint, but still in the bunker. Got that one out of the bunker, but into the fringe grass in front of me. Chipped that one on a bit hard and two putts later made a 7. Another was on 14. The flag was on the little finger of green front left. I tried to play a little past it and a little right. Shoved it maybe 10 yards right of where I wanted to and the carry over the bunker gets longer the further right you go and that one hit the grass between the green and the bunker and came back down into the sand, left it in there and didn't get up and down on the next one. I think carrywise it carried about as far as I was planning on it doing so. Another was on 6, leaked my drive a little right into the fairway bunker. Hit a nearly good shot from there that went a little left and a little short and kicked into the bunker front left. That was a strike thing and just a hard shot. Did similar on 18. Drive in the right bunker, slightly heavy second that hit the bank between green and bunker again and kicked back into the sand. I think the tiredness manifested more as not squaring the face up so well and less as slowing down.
    • Depends on how short you were coming up on these shots. A bit more wind? Also, maybe you were swinging at 2-3 mph slower the next day.  I think the biggest thing is not adjusting. Like making assuming your stock shot is not enough and taking 1 club up. Not sure what type of adjustments you were making in your decision making. 
    • No one should measure a joint mobility away from that joint. If you go to physical therapy, they are not measuring your knee mobility based on your midline. It is based at the joint. Shoulder mobility should be measured in reference to the shoulder joint. 
    • He's using a driver swing, while I used the iron swing. Bryson goes from about 65° B to 15° B, hence the 50°. If you bend your right elbow, you're going to pull your hands across your chest some. Conversely, if you abduct your right arm and hold onto a grip with your left arm, you can see how extending the right elbow as we do in the golf swing during the downswing will "pull" the right shoulder/humerus forward (adducting it, as going from 65° to 15° of abduction is). Even people who pull their right shoulder WAY too far around them eventually get it "back in front" when their right arm/elbow extends. So, such a motion shows up as shoulder adduction even though the movement that causes it is just widening the trail elbow. The left hand on the grip almost "pulls" the hands forward as the left arm can't stretch much (there's some shoulder protraction, but that's almost maxed out at P4). Oh, I downloaded it and watched it (and commented there) before he blocked me. It's what led to him posting the comment in the "update" above. 😄  Single shoulder range of 75°, and that's going out well into the follow-through. 50° Max range up to impact. Manavian's video is bad. He keeps saying "midline" which is just a horrible way to look at it. He also kept saying that the club was moving that amount — also wrong. Adding left and right together is really freaking dumb. Another golf instructor said "That's like saying the player has 100 degrees of knee bend (adding left knee bend to right knee bend) 🤦‍♂️" (similar to what the biomechanist said about squatting). Also, see my post above about elbow bend. That's why Plummer’s alignment stick demo is so intellectually dishonest. A golfer can't get anywhere near that position on the left with his left hand on the alignment stick (quoted below).  
    • That makes no sense at all.  so, I watched that Instagram. Here is a summary...  Bryson.... Address: Trail Shoulder 0 degrees adduction. P4: Trail Shoulder 65-deg abduction. Impact: Right shoulder 15-deg abduction. P9: 10 degrees adduction. Rory... Address: Trail Shoulder 16 degrees adduction. P4: Trail Shoulder 26 degrees abduction. Impact: Right shoulder 0 degrees abduction.  P9: 18 degrees of adduction.  DJ... Address: Trail Shoulder 4 degrees adduction. P4: Trail Shoulder 42 degrees abduction. Impact: Right shoulder 2 degrees abduction.  P9: 15 degrees of adduction.  Their point is that arm doesn't stay on the trail side. That the arms have to get across the chest from P4 to P9. I mean they do. What matters is the rate of which it happens relative to the position of the swing. The trail shoulder at P9 is not abducted a lot. The range of that total abduction movement is like 40 to 70 degrees. Bryson might be an outlier. Rory might be an outlier as well.  A couple of points.  1. None of them had any adduction at impact. So, this tells me the trail arms stays on the trail side of the body at impact. Is it moving towards lead shoulder, yes. It doesn't happen till post impact. The right side of the body is moving towards the target, so the arms don't have to as much as people think.  2. Trail shoulder adduction from Impact to P9 is 18 to 25 degrees.  3. P9 adduction of the trail shoulder is only about 2 to 12 degrees more adducted than at address. The arms/hands stay in front of the chest a long-time post impact. If Rory, from his address position just rotated his body towards the target and raised up his arms so he is at P9. He basically didn't have to move his trail arm further across his chest than where he started at address. Visualize that for a bit. I bet for people who tend to stall and drag their arms across their body to hit the ball, that would emphasize how much the arms stay in front of the body and how much you have to turn.             
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