Jump to content
IGNORED

Realistic Expectations


iacas
 Share

Recommended Posts

This is a great topic, and I have seen that so many times where from 100 yards or so and in, the player's(often my own) expectations don't match reality.  Making the shots, and avoiding penalties to get you into that position where you even have a chance to score from that range is so important.  Great stuff.

Nate

:pxg:(10.5) :benhogan:(4W):titleist:U500(3UI) :benhogan: Icon(4-PW) :edel:(52/58)

:odyssey:Putter :snell: MTB Black  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As usual, any OP by Erik is very informative and instructional.

I bet many people have asked this before, but do you have the current statistics for different levels of players versus say 10 years ago to see if all the equipment changes have possibly had a positive effect on the 110 yard and in game?

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Another time this pops up: you're short-sided, have to carry a bunker from a squidgy lie, and the green runs away from you. It's going to take an incredible shot to get the ball within 10 feet, yet players will try to play the hero shot and save par… often resulting in a double or worse.

Have realistic expectations here, too. A PGA Tour pro won't get that shot up and down half the time: there's no shame in giving yourself a 20-footer for par. You'll make it 10% of the time, but you'll almost never double bogey with that play.

1 minute ago, Lihu said:

I bet many people have asked this before, but do you have the current statistics for different levels of players versus say 10 years ago to see if all the equipment changes have possibly had a positive effect on the 110 yard and in game?

I don't think equipment has changed much in ten years. Not wedges (or golf balls).

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | 5SK.com | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great post.  I think I'll re-read LSW to get my head in the game for my comeback.

Kevin

Titleist 910 D3 9.5* with ahina 72 X flex
Titleist 910F 13.5* with ahina 72 X flex
Adams Idea A12 Pro hybrid 18*; 23* with RIP S flex
Titleist 712 AP2 4-9 iron with KBS C-Taper, S+ flex
Titleist Vokey SM wedges 48*, 52*, 58*
Odyssey White Hot 2-ball mallet, center shaft, 34"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

Great stuff! How many strokes would many of us save if we just hit to the middle of the green when playing over/near trouble?Just trying to get too cute with a short chip and leaving it in the rough can easily turn a two-putt bogey (~at worst) into a two-putt double. Having realistic expectations would save me from the more-than-occasional mind cramp of trying to get it close when assuring that the next shot is a reasonable putt should be job1.

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
--Groucho Marx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I play with at least 3 people that have a complete unrealistic expectation from 100-150 yards. They expect inside 20 ft everytime which just isn't going to happen. Great topic.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator
4 minutes ago, georgep said:

Great stuff! How many strokes would many of us save if we just hit to the middle of the green when playing over/near trouble?Just trying to get too cute with a short chip and leaving it in the rough can easily turn a two-putt bogey (~at worst) into a two-putt double.

Yep. You have a Shot Zone on short shots, too. We use this example all the time in our LSW clinics:

shortgame_dm.jpg

The "distance gradient" for the resulting putts is already drawn in (roughly, don't read too much into it), and the lightest colored egg is likely the shorter shot with less carry out to the left, not the one going right at the flag.

Just now, Jakester23 said:

I play with at least 3 people that have a complete unrealistic expectation from 100-150 yards. They expect inside 20 ft everytime which just isn't going to happen. Great topic.

Buy them a copy of LSW from your winnings! :-)

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | 5SK.com | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yep. You have a Shot Zone on short shots, too. We use this example all the time in our LSW clinics:

shortgame_dm.jpg

The "distance gradient" for the resulting putts is already drawn in (roughly, don't read too much into it), and the lightest colored egg is likely the shorter shot with less carry out to the left, not the one going right at the flag.

Those eggs are not equal.  I assume the one on the lower left is a club down which is a "stock" shot (i.e. a full gap wedge) where the one on the right is trying to control the distance on a PW, which causes more error on distance control.  Or am I reading more into the picture than I should?

Kevin

Titleist 910 D3 9.5* with ahina 72 X flex
Titleist 910F 13.5* with ahina 72 X flex
Adams Idea A12 Pro hybrid 18*; 23* with RIP S flex
Titleist 712 AP2 4-9 iron with KBS C-Taper, S+ flex
Titleist Vokey SM wedges 48*, 52*, 58*
Odyssey White Hot 2-ball mallet, center shaft, 34"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, k-troop said:

Those eggs are not equal.  I assume the one on the lower left is a club down which is a "stock" shot (i.e. a full gap wedge) where the one on the right is trying to control the distance on a PW, which causes more error on distance control.  Or am I reading more into the picture than I should?

I'm assuming the ball is in the bunker on this shot indicated by the black dot.

  • Upvote 1

- Shane

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, CarlSpackler said:

I'm assuming the ball is in the bunker on this shot indicated by the black dot.

Yes, that's what I meant to say.  :whistle:

  • Upvote 1

Kevin

Titleist 910 D3 9.5* with ahina 72 X flex
Titleist 910F 13.5* with ahina 72 X flex
Adams Idea A12 Pro hybrid 18*; 23* with RIP S flex
Titleist 712 AP2 4-9 iron with KBS C-Taper, S+ flex
Titleist Vokey SM wedges 48*, 52*, 58*
Odyssey White Hot 2-ball mallet, center shaft, 34"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator
11 minutes ago, k-troop said:

Those eggs are not equal.  I assume the one on the lower left is a club down which is a "stock" shot (i.e. a full gap wedge) where the one on the right is trying to control the distance on a PW, which causes more error on distance control.  Or am I reading more into the picture than I should?

You're missing the fact that the ball is in the bunker.

It's the blob in the bunker, the X is the hole, and the dot is the center of the likely better shot choice's Shot Zone.

:-D

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | 5SK.com | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is good.

I agree-The game can beat you up enough you do not have to add beating yourself up for good shots to it.

  • Upvote 2

"The expert golfer has maximum time to make minimal compensations. The poorer player has minimal time to make maximum compensations." - And no, I'm not Mac. Please do not PM me about it. I just think he is a crazy MFer and we could all use a little more crazy sometimes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great topic. This is really important to remember. I find that a lot of people have ridiculous expectations on their putting. They get down on themselves for missing a 10 footer, or for 3 putting from 50 feet. Neither of those things are really all that bad.

I think that partly goes hand in hand with watching PGA Tour broadcasts. They are always focused on the players playing their best, who are routinely making 10 foot putts and hitting wedge shots to a couple of feet. You then extrapolate that out, assuming all PGA Tour players are that good, and that falls into your game. You assume to be good at golf you have to hit all wedges to 5 feet and make every putt. It can be really disheartening. In reality, if you hit all of your approach shots to 30 feet and 2 putt, you'd be a plus golfer most likely.

It doesn't help that golf analysts say any average shot on the PGA Tour is a bad shot. Guys leave themselves 30 feet for birdie, and Johnny Miller is saying how that was only okay. It's hard to not internalize that.

-- Daniel

In my bag: :callaway: Big Bertha V Series (11 degrees) :callaway: Epic Flash 3.5W (16 degrees)

:callaway: Rogue Pro 3-PW :edel: SMS Wedges - V-Grind (48, 54, 58):edel: Putter

 :snell: MTB-X :aimpoint:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator
1 minute ago, DeadMan said:

I think that partly goes hand in hand with watching PGA Tour broadcasts. They are always focused on the players playing their best, who are routinely making 10 foot putts and hitting wedge shots to a couple of feet.

Or they cut ahead to a guy on 17 or 18 while the leaders are on the seventh… only to show him pitching in from across the green or holing a relatively meaningless 45-footer.

You can win a lot of bets if every time they cut to a non-star 10 holes ahead you wager that they're going to hole out.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | 5SK.com | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even knowing stats like this I still get down on myself for not hitting the green, especially on those rare shots when I put myself in the fairway off the tee :-P. I'm always happy when I hit the green, even if I'm not near the hole, but I can't seem to have that same outlook on near misses. I think par 3s are the worst, because even the shortest are typically outside of 120 yards with the longest being nearer 200 yards. Someone like me isn't really expected to hit that green in regulation, but I can't for the life of me get myself to accept that fact when I'm out there playing. When I'm not playing, I know and accept it, but once I'm on the course those unrealistic expectations creep right back in.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice post.  My mental game has generally gotten way better just from general personal development applied on the golf course.  But this kind of statistical thinking has definitely helped a bit as well.  Truly being honest with yourself about the realistic probabilities is a good motivator for the always aiming for the center of the green except from quite short.  For me, that's at the pin with my 60˚, shaded towards the pin with SW and maybe GW if I'm feeling good with the short clubs, and center of the green with anything longer.  

Erik emphasized the short clubs, sensibly, because it's more common for players to have unrealistic expectations with a wedge in hand.  But I've found this kind of thinking helpful with the long clubs too.  Like on a long par 3, I'm gonna be happy with nGIR, very happy about on the green, and super pumped about within 20-30 feet of green center (where I'm aiming).  Same with the driver.  Sure, I'm not gonna be all jazzed about a big hook or ugly far push fade, but if I miss a tad and end up not honestly super far from the center of the fairway but still under a tree on a pretty tight fairway, I'm bummed not to have an open look but not feeling like I made an unexpectedly bad shot.  

  • Upvote 1

Matt

Mid-Weight Heavy Putter
Cleveland Tour Action 60˚
Cleveland CG15 54˚
Nike Vapor Pro Combo, 4i-GW
Titleist 585h 19˚
Tour Edge Exotics XCG 15˚ 3 Wood
Taylormade R7 Quad 9.5˚

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • Support TST Affiliates

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct links for Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package. Save 10% on Mevo with coupon code "IACAS" as well.
  • Posts

    • My wife is a non-golfer.  We are both pretty independent and have our own interests, and support both being able to do the things we enjoy as long as it doesn’t get out of whack.  When the kids were younger, it was definitely harder to get out more than once a week.  Now that they’re starting to do their own thing, I get out twice a week (sometimes three).  I have a feeling I’ll be able to get in a lot of golf and mountain biking once we’re empty nesters.  All I can really suggest is try to support what she likes (which it sounds like you do), while helping her understand the thing(s) that you get joy out of and ask to receive support from her on that.
    • Day 25: Today I played a simulated round. The warm up was focused on my transition move, trying to shallow the club and have it not get more deep and behind me. I decided to “play” the round and commit to swinging that way even if I missed the ball. The goal was to work on the move even during a round, even though I know it wasn’t a real round. The scoring was terrible as I had alot of difficulty hitting the ball solid. Path was too much in to out but face angle was less shut to path than usual. 
    • Yeah, that's not really how you're supposed to do it. Put a ball down, putt it to a hole, then put another ball down somewhere else, almost kinda random, putt to a different hole… etc. You don't get a bunch of 12-footers in a row on the course.
    • Day 166.  Another dozen, same as the past few days. This has been a long week at work, and I'm glad for this challenge because without it I might make an excuse to not hit any balls, and I'm still glad I did the normal practices.  I acknowledge I'm not varying it very much the past week.
    • Thank you @iacas really appreciate the response. 
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. Baller
      Baller
      (60 years old)
    2. billchao
      billchao
      (37 years old)
    3. Ebelinga
      Ebelinga
      (49 years old)
    4. FEKIH Kamel
      FEKIH Kamel
      (56 years old)

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...