Now you've got a reasonable long game, but your putting sometimes stinks!

[billchao]

14 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I might be. The issue is that the statistics shows that I should have made at least 45% to 55% of them and I made like 1/9 yesterday. I left tap ins, but they're still strokes. . .

Sample size matters. A bad putting day stood out because you missed a few you expected to make, but how often do you flag the days you made more than your fair share and said, "I putt above my abilities today"?

[Lihu]

17 minutes ago, iacas said:

45-55% of putts from what length?

All I said was "outside of 3-4'" which includes 10 footers, 20 footers…

Like 6 to 10 feet? I made 1 of less than 9, actually.

 

6 minutes ago, billchao said:

Sample size matters. A bad putting day stood out because you missed a few you expected to make, but how often do you flag the days you made more than your fair share and said, "I putt above my abilities today"?

Good point.

[bmartin461]

1 minute ago, Lihu said:

Like 6 to 10 feet? I made 1 of less than 9, actually.

Ok, so you said you were left with tap-ins, so you speed was not off, did you miss all to the right, all short, all left?

 

[RH31]

It's certainly not all mental. I think you really need to know what your own fundamentals are.

Ball position, body position, hand position, grip....etc.,

When your fundamentals get a little off, your confidence lags, tension may creep in, might peek a little, next thing you know you can't make anything.

I try to note my own fundamentals when I'm putting well, recheck them when I start missing more than "normal".

[Lihu]

8 minutes ago, bmartin461 said:

Ok, so you said you were left with tap-ins, so you speed was not off, did you miss all to the right, all short, all left?

I wish it was consistent. No, I don't recall a trend. Short, left, right depending upon the break.

Now, I'm really embarrassed to say this was at our local course up Lake ave. Should have been really easy. . .

[bmartin461]

25 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I really prefer practicing my full swing anyway.

So to be clear, you are saying you have a solid long game and don't want to practice on what you think is costing you strokes then you ask if putting can be improved or if it is just a mystery and if it's not a mystery you still won't practice it?  Ok, I got it.....

[Lihu]

13 minutes ago, bmartin461 said:

So to be clear, you are saying you have a solid long game and don't want to practice on what you think is costing you strokes then you ask if putting can be improved or if it is just a mystery and if it's not a mystery you still won't practice it?  Ok, I got it.....

No, not even close to "solid", just "reasonable" meaning not crappy.

Okay, I should practice putting anyway. . .

But, I'm kind of thinking that based upon the line of questioning, that Erik might have been alluding to the fact that my putting might not have been the actual issue?

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Lihu said:

Like 6 to 10 feet? I made 1 of less than 9, actually.

Then you're not gonna make 55% of them.

Not even 45%, really.

If you had 20 putts each from 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 feet, you'd be expected - if you were a PGA Tour player - to hole only about 50% of them.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Then you're not gonna make 55% of them.

Not even 45%, really.

If you had 20 putts each from 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 feet, you'd be expected - if you were a PGA Tour player - to hole only about 50% of them.

Yeah, I think I see your reasoning here. . .

 

On the range today, one of my range buddies noted that I was doing bad stuff again. We fixed it, and the last two drives went straight. I hit a bunch more irons with this change and the dispersion was more like my better days. Sigh.

Sorry everyone, false alarm. My putting doesn't stink that much. It was just my swing that stank that much

I'm playing a round with him this weekend, so maybe he can keep me straight(er).

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Sorry everyone, false alarm. My putting doesn't stink that much. It was just my swing that stank that much

I'm at a loss for how you can confuse this. You think your putting stinks, but no, it's actually your full swing?

Huh?

[Lihu]

13 minutes ago, iacas said:

I'm at a loss for how you can confuse this. You think your putting stinks, but no, it's actually your full swing?

Huh?

I'm okay from the standpoint of being able to hit some greens. However, where I hit them is another issue. I'm usually left with serious lag putts which in turn leave me with 6 foot or longer putts on bad days. In turn, I only make 45% or less according to the statistics. In fact, I average 1.9 putts per hole according to GG. So, I shouldn't be surprised by your assertion based upon the stats.

So, if from a statistical standpoint I shouldn't be expecting to make half or more of my 6 foot putts then it's not my putting that's that bad, is that correct? So, logically, I have to conclude that it's my full swing again?

I need to look at my approach statistics in GG to really see what's going on.

[Buckeyebowman]

8 hours ago, phillyk said:

I see a lot of single digit guys who can hit the ball very well, but their putting is very inconsistent.  Their setup is wrong.  I've seen some who setup a couple feet left of where they want the ball to start and intentionally push and some who do the opposite and pull it.  Take an hour to just go practice with a ruler or something to get your alignment straightened out.  Or sometimes they just don't take their time to read the green and just walk up to hit it without thinking.  Putting isn't a hard skill to get better at, just take some time to get it right.

That describes my buddy to a T! He sets up left and "shoves" the ball at the hole. I have demonstrated this to him on many occasions, but he can't seem to get himself out of the habit.

This post reminded me of what my putting was like back when I could actually play this game. My best score was 3 under 69 on a par 72 played from the tips. While most guys would be delighted with that, I was not. It wasn't that my putting was so variable, it was the unrelenting sameness of it! I had gotten in the habit of rolling the ball right up to the hole, but never past it.

On the day I shot that 69 I did what I always did back then. I'd grab a Coke, take my scorecard out to the veranda, go over the round in my mind, and make my notes. It occurred to me that I had 13 or 14 holes where I had reasonable birdie chances. Back then I would put my drive "there", and my approach "there" right where I wanted them! But I never really "went low". The conclusion was obvious, I needed to putt better. So, I started to practice my putting more. Yet, I could never get past rolling the ball up to the hole.

I do agree that you can learn to putt better. I will say that at 64, I think I putt better now than I did at 24! The last time we were able to get out was a semi-warmish day in December. I was scaring the hole on every putt, and sunk a mile of them! Everybody was looking at me saying, "What the Hell is this?" I've simply learned to trust my instincts and first impressions. And finally stroke the ball hard enough to get it there!

 

[Lihu]

26 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

On the day I shot that 69 I did what I always did back then. I'd grab a Coke, take my scorecard out to the veranda, go over the round in my mind, and make my notes. It occurred to me that I had 13 or 14 holes where I had reasonable birdie chances. Back then I would put my drive "there", and my approach "there" right where I wanted them! But I never really "went low". The conclusion was obvious, I needed to putt better. So, I started to practice my putting more. Yet, I could never get past rolling the ball up to the hole.

That's really cool!

Quote

I do agree that you can learn to putt better. I will say that at 64, I think I putt better now than I did at 24! The last time we were able to get out was a semi-warmish day in December. I was scaring the hole on every putt, and sunk a mile of them! Everybody was looking at me saying, "What the Hell is this?" I've simply learned to trust my instincts and first impressions. And finally stroke the ball hard enough to get it there!

Yeah, I guess a lot of practice helps to develop that instinct? No matter how hard I tried, it seems like analytically approaching putting is not the answer for me. There are too many uncertainties.

[Piz]

A putt can be, in ascending order, a faint hope, an educated guess, or a declaration of purpose.  That gives any one of us a one-in-three probability of approaching it in a proper state of mind.

[RandallT]

8 hours ago, Lihu said:

So, if from a statistical standpoint I shouldn't be expecting to make half or more of my 6 foot putts then it's not my putting that's that bad, is that correct? So, logically, I have to conclude that it's my full swing again?

I need to look at my approach statistics in GG to really see what's going on.

Do me a favor. GAME GOLF a couple representative rounds. On the greens, make sure you accurately portray your putting distances. For example:

1. Move the flag
2. Delete all but your first putt. Move that first putt to the correct initial distance from the hole. Make sure it's fairly exact. (if you had a 25footer, don't have it show 30ft or 12ft. Get it close, if not exactly, 25ft.
3. Then add in your putts one by one by clicking the Add Shot. GG adds that putt halfway to the hole. Move that putt again to the proper distance from the hole.
4. Repeat that for all putts (if you three-putted or worse)

The reason you wipe them all out except the initial putt is become GG has a dumb interface (to me) where it shows you the distance the putt traveled- not the distance to the hole. So if you had a 25ft putt and you knock it 5ft past, GG visually shows you 30ft and 5ft. So you end up doing all kinds of trigonometric calculations in your head. Just easier to wipe out all putts but the original putt, and add them in one by one.

If you do this (it's FAR easier than it sounds), it removes all doubt. We can do a simple strokes gained on your putting. No more guessing games. Just a couple representative rounds.

Or... just go to a putting green. Pick 18 putts that are representative of a round. Hint: the average initial putting distance is usually around 17ft for us all. Some shorter, some longer- but 17ft is a bit of a magic number for many skill levels. Tell me how many putts it took you and send me the initial putt distances for those 18 holes. That's a simple way to check if you putt similarly to pros/scratch golfers- or if you are say, 5 or 6 strokes worse (pretty much the worst I've seen).

If you are just guessing that your problem is putting, and then you switch based on someone's comments that it is actually your long game- then I think you're doing yourself a disservice. I wouldn't trust anyone else- I'd go see for myself what the numbers say. In fact, I wouldn't even take the word of GG or any other tool. It's not like strokes gained is rocket science or robot science. 

[alleztom]

Hi @Lihu - an even easier solution than @RandallT (he and I have discussed these).

Count the number of first putts from each distance - A (inside 3'), B (3'-9'), C (9'-15'), D (15-45'), E (over 45')
Count the number of putts you take from each distance (so if you 2 putt from 7' it is B - two putts)
Calculate the number of expected putts from each distance, which I roughly worked out from strokes gained data (1 for A, 1.4 for B, 1.8 for C, 2 for D, 2.15 for E), so if you 2 putt from 7' you have lost 0.6 shots. If you then 1 putt from 1 feet you've gained 0.8 shots etc.
Compare your putts with 'expected' putts to give you a general sense.

Really quick stats to keep to keep track on whether your putting is killing you or not. Hope it helps.

[bmartin461]

12 hours ago, Lihu said:

So, if from a statistical standpoint I shouldn't be expecting to make half or more of my 6 foot putts then it's not my putting that's that bad, is that correct? So, logically, I have to conclude that it's my full swing again?

Are you making this conclusion from one 9-hole round or is this a recent trend?  I think you have received some good advice on how to evaluate your putting from @RandallT and @alleztom. 

[Lazarus]

Do others track total distance putted vs putts taken? I started doing that and found that my good and bad (average feet per putt) were not so far apart even if total putts varied (largely due to NGIR vs GIR)