Driver Shaft Length Creep

[Hacker James]

When shortening a driver, cutting on the butt end should not make it stiffer, but would change the swing weight significantly 1/2 inch equals -3 pts of SW change. You then have to add the weight back to the head and depending on how you do it, where you place the weights, or tape may change the CG. Although I have not tried it, I am told that adding tip weights inside the shaft is the best way to go.  That being said, club fitter and new shaft is best. Find the right flex point for your swing.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Hacker James

[onthehunt526]

2 hours ago, Hacker James said:

When shortening a driver, cutting on the butt end should not make it stiffer, but would change the swing weight significantly 1/2 inch equals -3 pts of SW change. You then have to add the weight back to the head and depending on how you do it, where you place the weights, or tape may change the CG. Although I have not tried it, I am told that adding tip weights inside the shaft is the best way to go.  That being said, club fitter and new shaft is best. Find the right flex point for your swing.

@Hacker James has a great point. Your D1 driver would become C4 if you cut an inch of your driver. However, in today's age of adjustability, you could easily change out the stock weight screw for a heavier one to counter act the swingweight change. 

For example, my driver's swingweight is D4. If I cut an inch off of my driver, my swingweight would be D7. To counteract, I would swap out the 6 gram screw for a 12 gram screw. Or if I just wanted D1 a 9 gram screw. You dont need to necessarily put lead tape on the head anymore to get your swingweight back to balanced.

[1badbadger]

3 hours ago, Hacker James said:

When shortening a driver, cutting on the butt end should not make it stiffer, but would change the swing weight significantly 1/2 inch equals -3 pts of SW change. You then have to add the weight back to the head and depending on how you do it, where you place the weights, or tape may change the CG. Although I have not tried it, I am told that adding tip weights inside the shaft is the best way to go.  That being said, club fitter and new shaft is best. Find the right flex point for your swing.

 

1 hour ago, onthehunt526 said:

@Hacker James has a great point. Your D1 driver would become C4 if you cut an inch of your driver. However, in today's age of adjustability, you could easily change out the stock weight screw for a heavier one to counter act the swingweight change. 

For example, my driver's swingweight is D4. If I cut an inch off of my driver, my swingweight would be D7. To counteract, I would swap out the 6 gram screw for a 12 gram screw. Or if I just wanted D1 a 9 gram screw. You dont need to necessarily put lead tape on the head anymore to get your swingweight back to balanced.

Good info guys. There are several options to increase the swing weight when shortening a driver shaft like @onthehunt526 and @Hacker James mentioned.  Brass or lead tip weights work well, but the shaft has to be pulled to install them, so this is a method that can be used if you are re-shafting a driver with a shorter shaft, but if the current shaft will be used I would suggest one of the other options.  

Replacing the weight screws with heavier ones is a perfect solution...if your driver has removable weights. If it does, and you have a heavier one laying around, you're in good shape.  If you need to purchase one, it will run about $10-20 and you'll keep the clean, factory appearance.  

If you're like me and play a driver that doesn't have removable weight screws, I suggest lead tape.  As far as I'm concerned, lead tape is the greatest invention right after sliced bread.  It's inexpensive, easy to work with, won't hurt the finish, and fool-proof. It's commonly used by Tour players and will give your clubs character...embrace the tape.

[Hacker James]

yep, all sorts of ways to alter the dynamics. Lighter shaft, heavier shaft, lighter grip, heavier grip, counter weights, higher/lower kick point, flex changes, offset, draw/fade bias, lie angle, loft and even graphics, head shapes.   Voo Doo.

[MarvChamp]

Y'know, I don't think I noticed the swingweight difference. I don't think my friend added weight. Of course, the Callaway Diablo Octane is pretty light anyway and I did have a lighter grip installed. Maybe that accounts for my lack of feeling the swingweight? (Or just could be my old man swing is so slow!) -Marv

[Hacker James]

lighter grip - heavier head (apparent)

[Buckeyebowman]

4 hours ago, 1badbadger said:

 

Good info guys. There are several options to increase the swing weight when shortening a driver shaft like @onthehunt526 and @Hacker James mentioned.  Brass or lead tip weights work well, but the shaft has to be pulled to install them, so this is a method that can be used if you are re-shafting a driver with a shorter shaft, but if the current shaft will be used I would suggest one of the other options.  

Replacing the weight screws with heavier ones is a perfect solution...if your driver has removable weights. If it does, and you have a heavier one laying around, you're in good shape.  If you need to purchase one, it will run about $10-20 and you'll keep the clean, factory appearance.  

If you're like me and play a driver that doesn't have removable weight screws, I suggest lead tape.  As far as I'm concerned, lead tape is the greatest invention right after sliced bread.  It's inexpensive, easy to work with, won't hurt the finish, and fool-proof. It's commonly used by Tour players and will give your clubs character...embrace the tape.

I have an old set of leaded up Tommy Armour 855S irons that you would just love!

[WUTiger]

On 3/4/2017 at 7:09 PM, 1badbadger said:

 The reality is, not only do most players not lose distance, they actually hit a shorter driver longer!  How can this be?  One reason is it's much easier to hit the ball on the sweet spot with a shorter shaft.

This mirrors one of the club-fitting tips from the Golfworks Academy: If you're fitting someone for a driver, and face decal shows impact all over the face, one possible correction is a shorter shaft.

If you trim an inch off an existing driver, however, it will lower the swingweight by about 6 points. You can regain the swingweight by going with a lighter grip, or with lead tape on head or tipweighting.

@1badbadger, if a person wants to tip-weight a shaft. Is it really OK to pour tungsten powder down the shaft and cork it, or is it better to remove the shaft and tip-weight it? But, I've also heard that tip weighting either way can throw off the balance of the club. I'm not sure of the supposed mechanics of the problem.

[1badbadger]

1 hour ago, WUTiger said:

This mirrors one of the club-fitting tips from the Golfworks Academy: If you're fitting someone for a driver, and face decal shows impact all over the face, one possible correction is a shorter shaft.

If you trim an inch off an existing driver, however, it will lower the swingweight by about 6 points. You can regain the swingweight by going with a lighter grip, or with lead tape on head or tipweighting.

@1badbadger, if a person wants to tip-weight a shaft. Is it really OK to pour tungsten powder down the shaft and cork it, or is it better to remove the shaft and tip-weight it? But, I've also heard that tip weighting either way can throw off the balance of the club. I'm not sure of the supposed mechanics of the problem.

Pouring lead or tungsten powder down the shaft and corking it is definitely a method used to increase swingweight.  Tungsten is heavier than lead, but it's also more expensive.  It's one way to do it without pulling the shaft, but of course it requires a new grip.  To me, it's the least desirable way to increase swing weight and I only use it as a last resort if for whatever reason other methods can't be used.  The reason is because the weight is placed in the shaft above the hosel, since the epoxy will have filled up the hosel, the powder will sit on top of the epoxy in the tip of the shaft, so yes, the scale will read heavier, but the weight isn't really in the head.

Tom Wishon has done testing on how much the cg is affected when lead tape or tip weights ar powder is used, and he has determined pretty much no amount of weight applied to the head is enough to affect the cg.  I don't dispute him, but at the very least it has to affect the feel.  If there is a bunch of weight in the hosel, or in the shaft above the hosel vs placing lead tape on the back of the head?  There has to be a difference. But he powder to me is just kind of fooling the scale.

[jkelley9]

I cut 3/4 inch off my stock driver shaft over a year ago. I forget my shaft type but it's the stock R1 in stiff. 

I always felt uncomfortable over the ball because I felt like the angle of my shaft at address was far too shallow. 

After cutting, I had a lot more confidence. I also hit the ball further. How or why, I don't know. Maybe better or more consistent face contact.

This may just be a byproduct of fitting, as I'm a short fellow at ~5'7". All my clubs are cut down. 

[Dave2512]

All my long clubs are shorter than modern lengths unless it's a hybrid which are shorter than a fairway wood even if it's the same loft, I sometimes use fairways and sometimes don't. My driver's are 44".

[OrangeHog]

While in Orlando this past weekend I decided to test out playing with a shorter shaft again.  2 years ago I had a Bridgeston J715 driver that was mistakenly cut to play at 43.5 inches but it turned out that it was the most accurate driver I've ever played in my entire life.  Admittedly, though, it wasn't the longest.  When I demo'd the M2 I currently play against it head-to-head the M2 was easily 15-20 yards longer on average.  Since switching to the M2 I've played the stock shaft at around 45.5" and have had relatively good results with it, from a dispersion perspective, but it's definitely not as accurate as the J715 with the shorter shaft.

So, fast forward to this past weekend...I brought an extra shaft I had in my garage to Orlando and had it cut down to play at 44.25" in my M2.  The lighter swing weight was very much noticeable and, unfortunately, I couldn't adjust it as I didn't have any lead tape with me.  That said, I felt like overall control was noticeably better and I was still hitting out to the same yardages as I was with the longer shaft.  In fact, I was right in line with my buddies - all of which are long knockers themselves - or even past their drives on several holes.  Admittedly, I had a couple drives that got away from me but that's user error and not the club.

I plan to keep working with it and might adjust the swing weight in the future.  For now I kind of like the lighter feel compared to before.  If I can get some LM data on the course I'll try and post that in here.

[Hacker James]

While apparent swing weight is a factor, it does not mean changing has to be detrimental. It is all down to confidence and feel to the individual. Often times doing nothing at all will have no ill effect. Some cannot even tell the difference other than the club "may" feel lighter. After all, we are talking grams not ounces.  The formula that states a 1/2 inch change in shaft length equates to a 3 point change in swing weight is still valid, but it may make no actual "difference" and might provide a faster swing speed. Control is pretty much an aspect of tempo and the shorter shaft simply means it takes a slightly shorter time to return the club to impact position.  I remember when the giant heads came out, the shafts noticeably longer, it took a lot of getting used to and patience to "wait" for the club to come around. The longer distances achieved (or promised) related to simple laws of physics in that it is a longer lever requiring less force to move an object, namely the ball.  in the case cited above...."if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it".

[onthehunt526]

On 3/9/2017 at 7:15 PM, Hacker James said:

While apparent swing weight is a factor, it does not mean changing has to be detrimental. It is all down to confidence and feel to the individual. Often times doing nothing at all will have no ill effect. Some cannot even tell the difference other than the club "may" feel lighter. After all, we are talking grams not ounces.  The formula that states a 1/2 inch change in shaft length equates to a 3 point change in swing weight is still valid, but it may make no actual "difference" and might provide a faster swing speed. Control is pretty much an aspect of tempo and the shorter shaft simply means it takes a slightly shorter time to return the club to impact position.  I remember when the giant heads came out, the shafts noticeably longer, it took a lot of getting used to and patience to "wait" for the club to come around. The longer distances achieved (or promised) related to simple laws of physics in that it is a longer lever requiring less force to move an object, namely the ball.  in the case cited above...."if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it".

Lighter swingweight will make you swing the club faster in theory, I suppose. A shorter shaft will make the swingweight lighter for sure. @1badbadger riddle me this, if the club's total weight is changed very slightly by trimming it.... Why does it effect the swingweight so much?

Tom Wishon stated the bend profile in the shaft matters more. 

I don't think the swingweight would matter so much... I would probably go with a lighter grip to raise it up in my opinion. But a bulky grip (like mine will lower it more)

But it's sad that Drivers and all clubs have creeped up in length by around 1-2".... All fairways are 1-1.5" longer than they used to be. Irons are 1-1.5" longer as well.

[Hacker James]

4 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

Lighter swingweight will make you swing the club faster in theory, I suppose. A shorter shaft will make the swingweight lighter for sure. @1badbadger riddle me this, if the club's total weight is changed very slightly by trimming it.... Why does it effect the swingweight so much?

Tom Wishon stated the bend profile in the shaft matters more. 

I don't think the swingweight would matter so much... I would probably go with a lighter grip to raise it up in my opinion. But a bulky grip (like mine will lower it more)

But it's sad that Drivers and all clubs have creeped up in length by around 1-2".... All fairways are 1-1.5" longer than they used to be. Irons are 1-1.5" longer as well.

its not so much the change in weight (static) but in swing weight (apparent). Think See Saw. Bend profile/kick point will determine how the shaft releases.

[1badbadger]

4 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

Lighter swingweight will make you swing the club faster in theory, I suppose. A shorter shaft will make the swingweight lighter for sure. @1badbadger riddle me this, if the club's total weight is changed very slightly by trimming it.... Why does it effect the swingweight so much?

I don't think the swingweight would matter so much... I would probably go with a lighter grip to raise it up in my opinion. But a bulky grip (like mine will lower it more)

 

Yes, when a club is shortened by 1" for example, that little 1" piece of shaft weighs very little...maybe a couple of grams.  So the change in overall weight will not be discernible.  But the change in swingweight will be very noticeable.  The reason is because changing the length of a club shifts the balance point. In this case, it shifts it away from the head.  This 1" change will decrease the swingweight by about 6 points.  Most golfers, regardless of ability, will be able to feel a 3 point difference.

One thing I want to point out is that swingweight affects many different things...but it may not have the same effect for everyone.  Can a lighter swingweight increase clubhead speed?  Yes.  But this doesn't necessarily mean more distance.  The swingweight is tied into a player's tempo, timing and feel, so maybe a little more speed is generated, but it could also destroy timing and tempo which would have a negative result.

A good way to illustrate this is to take a mid iron and make a few swings without a ball.  Then turn the club around and grip the head end and make a few swings.  You'll be able to swing the club so fast it will make a swooshing noise.  The club is still the same overall weight, but obviously it feels way lighter...and I'll bet it felt like everything was out of sync.  This is in essence a demonstration of swingweight, although more dramatic than real life.

[OrangeHog]

I read somewhere (maybe here...can't recall) that shortening the shaft also changes the lie angle of the club.  I'm struggling to wrap my mind around that, if it's accurate.

If it is indeed accurate how would you need to adjust the driver?  Open/close the face, etc?

[Hacker James]

20 minutes ago, OrangeHog said:

I read somewhere (maybe here...can't recall) that shortening the shaft also changes the lie angle of the club.  I'm struggling to wrap my mind around that, if it's accurate.

If it is indeed accurate how would you need to adjust the driver?  Open/close the face, etc?

It could. Often when you shorten the club, you feel the need to stand closer which will make it more upright. I would say the natural tendency would be to open the face a little.