Dirty Sandbaggers

[jetsknicks1]

Really just a rant lol. My buddy and I play in a summer 9 hole league that began last Thursday, the first day is basically setting a handicap for the season. This Thursday we play against two guys who I know for a fact are pretty good golfers but they have a handicap of 19 & 22 respectively! . I guess I just don't get the whole sandbagging thing, I mean the winning team only gets $50 each so why the need to "cheat" to try to win. I'll need to give 11 strokes and my partner will need to give 12, that's a ton of strokes to try to make up over 9 holes.

this is only my second year playing, is this a common thing in leagues like this? Just seems silly to me.

[HitAndGiggle]

Competitive golf at the lower levels (your's and mine) is full of cheaters. I remember catching my adversary shaving strokes in a similar league several years ago. I confronted him about it as we walked off the 8th green in front of the other two players. The cheater went on to win the league title that season. That, for me, tainted this whole concept of adult, amateur competition. I've seen winning scramble tournament scores turned in that were obvious frauds. 

[David in FL]

Dirty Sandbagger is redundant.

Surely those aren't 9-hole handicaps, are they?  How are you, as a 17, giving that many strokes to a 19 and a 22?

[dave s]

Our league used to use the first two league rounds to 'reestablish' personal handicap for the new season and on both nines.  We don't do that anymore.  Playing in Ohio means cold, ugly weather when a 12 handicap can easily shoot 50 those two weeks.  Grass isn't growing, course is a mess, weather bad ... nobody goes low or plays well the first few weeks of the season.

What we do now is carry over hdcps from the end of last season.  We don't get a lot of new players so that's not an issue either.

The most important thing our league does is hdcp players based on league-wide scoring BY HOLE.  For example, hole 10 is a straight-forward 350 yard par 4 until you get to the green.  The green is wide, but not deep.  OB left, overgrowth deep, huge bunker short.  On the score card it has a hdcp rating of 14.  Our league racks up more strokes over par on this hole than any other on both nines! It's our league #1 hdcp hole.

Hdcp by league scores seems incredibly fair to me.  If you play to your hdcp or within reason, matches are usually pretty close.  No team runs away with the league, either.  Point differential between last place and first is also not that great.

Pretty tough to 'sand-bag' our league.  Plus, nobody cares whether they win or lose anyway.  It's more about having fun.

dave

[jetsknicks1]

5 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Dirty Sandbagger is redundant.

Surely those aren't 9-hole handicaps, are they?  How are you, as a 17, giving that many strokes to a 19 and a 22?

Yup, 9 holes. I shot a 44 the first week so they gave me a HC of 7.69.

[David in FL]

Ugh.  How often do they recalculate handicaps, every week?

[Groucho Valentine]

One of the reasons why i don't get into handicap competitions. Ill give somebody a stroke or two per 9 in a game or something, but not to a whole field. Its not really fair to the better player. 

[jetsknicks1]

28 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Ugh.  How often do they recalculate handicaps, every week?

Yes, they calculate every week. I guess I just don't understand it, I try to play the best I can every week.

[GolfLug]

37 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Dirty Sandbagger is redundant.

Surely those aren't 9-hole handicaps, are they?  How are you, as a 17, giving that many strokes to a 19 and a 22?

Lol!..I think some take it to whole new level to deserve the redundancy for effect.

I think scrambles are absolutely horrible when it comes to large group events.  

 

[Lihu]

56 minutes ago, jetsknicks1 said:

Yup, 9 holes. I shot a 44 the first week so they gave me a HC of 7.69.

This is a whole new level of scoring to me, but how is a person shooting 44 going to get a handicap of 7.69?

Or should my question be how a decent golfer would shoot 19 over on 9 holes?

IDK, I don't really play scrambles so I have no idea how this stuff is calculated?

[jetsknicks1]

5 minutes ago, Lihu said:

This is a whole new level of scoring to me, but how is a person shooting 44 going to get a handicap of 7.69?

Or should my question be how a decent golfer would shoot 19 over on 9 holes?

IDK, I don't really play scrambles so I have no idea how this stuff is calculated?

The format is actually head to head, the two "low" hc's will play against each other, as will the two "high" hc's. I love playing in the league because I'm able to get out one afternoon a week but I think it's pretty obvious that somebody handing in a 65 for nine holes is obviously doing something a bit shady.

[bkuehn1952]

14 minutes ago, Lihu said:

This is a whole new level of scoring to me, but how is a person shooting 44 going to get a handicap of 7.69?

It is a nine hole handicap.  Multiply by 2.

Also, it is a league.  I doubt they follow the USGA Handicap System.  When I played in a league it was always a form of rolling average with some limits as to the maximum for any single hole, similar to ESC but just a fixed number like "10".

 

[bkuehn1952]

1 hour ago, jetsknicks1 said:

this is only my second year playing, is this a common thing in leagues like this? Just seems silly to me.

I think most leagues have a problem with their handicap systems because no one really bothers to think through the process.  The idea of having a round to set a starting handicap is great except some players know there is no reward for playing well the first day.  So you have some people not try very hard the first day knowing they will be rewarded with a fat handicap. These guys probably tell themselves that they were trying to play well but they had "one of those days."

If you enjoy getting out and playing during the week, just shrug it off.  Yes, the guys with the 20 handicaps will kick some butt for a while but they aren't fooling anyone.

At the end of the season, offer to help administer the league and handicapping system.  Then make changes to prevent this from happening.

[SteveH]

I am in Canada and where I used to live it was always scrambles, etc so hcaps were never an issue and i tracked my index more to track my improvement. Conditions were always similar during the season. After almost a year layoff from golf I moved to a new location and a much tougher course and conditions. It is individual play and they want all the scores entered and hcaps up to date for the weekly fun competitions. After over 20 rounds my index has gotten a lot higher. Hopefully it will get back down once the conditions improve and i get back on track. It was tough at first as i was getting trounced by much higher handicappers but as my index climbs it is getting a lot closer. I felt uncomfortable at first watching a 4 or 5 stroke increase accumulating but it is based on the last 20 games I believe so its accurate.

[TN94z]

It's all about winning. Some people's pride will not allow them to score themselves correctly, play all out in these types of leagues, or finish at the bottom of a flight (even though it's the championship flight). That is very, very common. Scrambles are ridiculous when it comes to this. Especially if it is a two day scramble where the first day sets the flights for the 2nd.

Edited April 12, 2017 by TN94z

[Tat14]

2 hours ago, jetsknicks1 said:

I'll need to give 11 strokes and my partner will need to give 12, that's a ton of strokes to try to make up over 9 holes.

 

Are you sure that their indexes are for nine holes? 19 and 22 looks like Joe Leaguenight's regular 18 hole index. In which case:

You show a 17 index. You'd give two strokes to the opponent with the 19, on the two lowest handicapped holes on the card. And because it's a nine-hole game, and hole handicaps sort of split between the front and back nines, you may only give one stroke. This is how my league runs match play, based off of established, season to season Northern Nevada GA indexes.

Sidebar re: scrambles. Never played in one with handicaps applied. Confuses this thread.

[Loose Cannon]

Golf is a game of integrity... except when it comes to handicaps.  After seeing the handicap system raped and pillaged for years in amateur play, I refused to even carry a handicap.  Didn't play in any competitive events.  Recently retired, have been asked to represent our course in some regional events.  So, paid my handicap fee and am keeping one this year.  I fully assume I will be soundly beaten when we do get to competition.  Too many are more worried about winning than the integrity that should go with the Game.

Some years ago, I belonged to a course where the same two won nearly ever event.  They would claim double digit handicaps, then shoot near scratch during every event.  After a couple years, the course banned them from competition.  In the meantime, many quit playing in events because they knew the two "crooks" would take the big money.

It's sad, but it happens every day on golf courses.  Hurts the Game.  In life, it often seems the one who does not play by the rules is the one who succeeds in business.  We re-elect politicians we know are two-faced and lie through their teeth.  Then, we have difficulty understanding why someone claims a sand-bagging handicap on the golf course.

[jetsknicks1]

1 hour ago, Tat14 said:

Are you sure that their indexes are for nine holes? 19 and 22 looks like Joe Leaguenight's regular 18 hole index. In which case:

You show a 17 index. You'd give two strokes to the opponent with the 19, on the two lowest handicapped holes on the card. And because it's a nine-hole game, and hole handicaps sort of split between the front and back nines, you may only give one stroke. This is how my league runs match play, based off of established, season to season Northern Nevada GA indexes.

Sidebar re: scrambles. Never played in one with handicaps applied. Confuses this thread.

It is definitely a 9 hole handicap and that's what makes theirs so ridiculous. The only hope we have of winning tomorrow is if they tank one more week to really set those numbers or if my buddy and I completely play our arses off lol.