What Would a 20.1 (see post #95) Index Shoot at a Local U.S. Open Qualifier Site?

[Jack Watson]

18 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I've seen some 20 handicap golfers have a decent putting game as well. It just depends. 

Yeah your post is definitely making me think...

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/how-tough-augusta-knuth

According to this a twenty could expect a 106 at Augusta,  that's plenty of cushion to get the 127.  I dunno if this really works out though.

127 is many many strokes.   And as you said,  100 yards a shot might do it.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Jack Watson

[davechen]

I walked the course during local qualifying last week.  It was played at a muni that I'm pretty familiar with, Northwest GC.  The greens might have been a bit faster than usual, but the rough wasn't too bad.  I think I could break 127 playing from the tips as a 14.9 handicap.

[kpaulhus]

I appreciate all of the replies. Now, let me preface this by saying I watched this golfer make a 19 on a par 5 because he couldn't reach the fairway, lost his ball in the rough short of the fairway. Re tee OB. Now hitting 5. Barely makes the fairway. Topped shot into a bunker. Chunked out. Pulled into a lake. Drop now hitting 10. Shank into a creek on other side of fairway. Drop now hitting 12. Wedge into greenside bunker, 13 is a chunk out that catches the wrong slope on the green and rolls back to 78 yards, chunked 14 3 ft. 15 finally on the green but 100 ft away. 4 putts later for a 19. 

 

There will be no less than 4-5 carts of audience following him on every shot to emulate pressure. My biggest concern is he will not be trying to shoot his best score, but instead have already done the math on how to manage his score to less than 126. 

He never takes a bet unless it's heavily in his favor. 

If I were a huge ass I could ask the super to set up some tough pins that day, and our rough is already cut to 2 3/4 inches deep, so maybe pick a Thursday or Sunday where they haven't been able to mow and it will be 3.5-4" deep and wet. Our green run 11-12 most of the summer, but his swing will be in summer form. It's a toss up really. Will be fun to watch 

[kpaulhus]

Summer rough. 

 

250yd par 3...there is no laying up here. 

[David in FL]

3 minutes ago, kpaulhus said:

Summer rough. 

 

250yd par 3...there is no laying up here. 

That's what I'm talking about.  The par-3 is unplayable for a high handicapper.  Hell, depending on the minimum safe carry, it might be unplayable for me.  Can you hit a little wedge to an up tee box and play from there?

Most of the local qualifying sites, even the sectional sites won't have anything like that though.

[kpaulhus]

9 minutes ago, David in FL said:

That's what I'm talking about.  The par-3 is unplayable for a high handicapper.  Hell, depending on the minimum safe carry, it might be unplayable for me.  Can you hit a little wedge to an up tee box and play from there?

Most of the local qualifying sites, even the sectional sites won't have anything like that though.

I hit a hybrid onto that green and 3 putted in my Mid Am qualifier. And to your questio, no he would have to hit driver over. It is down hill but 250 is still mostly 250. The course this 20.1 will be playing isn't a run of the mill track. The LPGA hosts a tournament here for a reason. 

Edited May 17, 2017 by kpaulhus

[BallStriker]

Even if he could break 127 on the course, it is another question completely whether he could do it under the pressure of playing a qualifying round playing next to plus handicaps you have never met.....I played in my state Am a couple years back and could barely breath standing over my first putt ....just a different animal playing with pressure like that

Edited May 17, 2017 by BallStriker

[David L Yskes]

6 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

I will preface this with the admission that I have never played in a Local Qualifier for the US Open.  

I looked up a typical venue, Jackson Country Club (TN). Their tips are 6,783 yards (72.9/128).  The site in MI, Muskegon Country Club, is fairly similar.

This makes sense. These are qualifiers, not the US Open. The venue in CO was really long, but the elevation has a lot to do with that.  The slope for the back tees is listed at 129 so the qualifier setup probably was near that number.

or how about Thornapple which is a 74.5 / 143 from the tips... 

Ravines is 74.5 / 138 from the tips too....   and both are right at 7000 yards 

I've played Ravines and it's not easy by any means.... especially for a HH player from the tips....

i'd like to give this a try this summer and see how i'd do playing from the tip's on a longer tougher course... 

just to see what my scores would be

[Killa]

To all guys saying how a tournament is a different situation- it depends if he ever played competitively before. 

 

I played volleyball on a high level and the jitters are gone in the first 20 seconds of a match. A golf tournament shouldn't be any different for anyone who played competitive sports before...

[Shorty]

38 minutes ago, Killa said:

To all guys saying how a tournament is a different situation- it depends if he ever played competitively before. 

 

I played volleyball on a high level and the jitters are gone in the first 20 seconds of a match. A golf tournament shouldn't be any different for anyone who played competitive sports before...

A bit more margin for error in volleyball. Golf is an individual game where the slightest error is magnified and very obvious. Your argument is like the one where people say they hit the ball a long way "because I used to play baseball."

[caniac6]

Most guys don't putt everything out in casual rounds. After a 20 misses a few 3 footers his mind will be toast.

[Hardspoon]

14 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

Most guys don't putt everything out in casual rounds. After a 20 misses a few 3 footers his mind will be toast.

But if he doesn't putt everything out in casual rounds, he's not ACTUALLY a 20.

The "mental game" (ugh) is not the reason the high-handicapper would struggle.

[Shooting29]

I posted some pictures in my post and here are some more. I started on 10, it's 170 to clear the ravine and get it in the rough. This was true rough.  I watched guys in the groups ahead of me hit into it on this hole and walk back to the tee because it couldn't be found. Guys in this position that found it were hitting a wedge back into the fairway. 

It's 220 to clear the rough and get to the fairway. It's 100 to the front tee then 120 to the fairway.  Let's say the 20.1 flares the first, re tees and gets his 3rd into the rough gouges 4 into the fairway, plays safe and hits a 120 shot to the 100 marker, on in 6 and 3 putts. That's 9 and he's not out of the gate. Numbers 2, 9, 10, and 18 have tee shots carry over that ravine/creek. 18 is 240 to carry and the only option if you cant is wedge it to the forward tees and hit a 140 shot to the fairway and still be 260 out. so the 20.1 can get on 18 with 4 perfect shots and 2 putt for a 6. How many perfect shots does a 20.1 hit? Those four holes I bet a 20.1 would average 10 or higher. That leaves 60 shots over 14 holes to break 100. That's 4.28 per hole. NOT HAPPENING! especially with 600 yard par 5s, water or OB in play on 14 of 18 holes. Thats before you take the green complexes into consideration.  Twice I was just hoping to get my first putt inside 20'

In my 3some one guy hit all 4 par 3s and made 4 pars. I hit 2 and made 2 pars and a double and a triple. Our third hit 0 and made 4 doubles. That's how penal not hitting the green in regulation is. You miss it you are dead and in thick rough you may not get out of in one swing. The 4th is reminiscent of a redan and its 230. I hit the green and got my first putt to 5' and made it. The guy who missed bailed out right, hit a pretty good chip and just couldn't stop it. it ran 30' past and he 3 putted for 5. 

I could see a 20.1 not making a single par and possibly not making a bogey. Double bogey golf is 108. I would take the over every time on the course I played and make money all day.

 

[Hardspoon]

32 minutes ago, Shooting29 said:

I could see a 20.1 not making a single par and possibly not making a bogey. Double bogey golf is 108. I would take the over every time on the course I played and make money all day.

You realize we are talking about shooting 127 or lower, not breaking 100, right?

The question is whether a 20-HC can average triple-bogey golf.

[Shooting29]

Here's the 15th tee shot and green, looking back down the uphill 6th,  the 4th green and the 17th green. Notice the 17th is a green in name only. Any shot not within 15' long and right rolls back down the fairway and anything too long rolls off the back.

6 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

You realize we are talking about shooting 127 or lower, not breaking 100, right?

The question is whether a 20-HC can average triple-bogey golf.

a 20.1 won't break 127 on the course I played in the conditions I played.

[Groucho Valentine]

Other than playing from 6900-7100 yards, Id say a 20 capper would shoot what they usually would. The USGA doesn't really trick out conditions at the qualifying sites. The setups are typically what they normally are at that course. This is also contingent on the 20capper not throwing up on every hole...lol

[oregongolfguy]

I looked at qualifying sites.  One here in the northwest I have played.  From the tips it's 7379yds, 75.2/151.  We are talking 250yd part 3's.  A bunch of 450-500 yd part 4's.  Long irons and woods into greens protected by water, bunkers etc.....

  Frankly what at 6600 yds is a fun great course is now a diabolical test of golf.  Pointless for a 20 capper

[MacDutch]

A true 20 capper uses ESC more then once. No ESC when playing strokeplay. If there is enough pressure and the rough is penalizing and there are a couple of holes where there is no safe way out, a score above 127 is easy made.