Can an LPGA player win on PGA tour?

[chspeed]

A recent silly "controversy" started by John McEnroe when he said that Serena, while the best woman's player of all time, would be ranked about "700" on the men's tour got me thinking. Other than the fact that it's probably pretty accurate, and that it must be a slow sports news day, it got me thinking about golf.

I know that the man vs. woman debate in golf got a lot of press during the early Michele Wie days. However, things have changed since then.

I guess there are a few main key assumptions to think about in terms of golf and the Man vs. Woman debate.

1. It's generally accepted that the main reason why women can't compete with men in most sports is strength and speed. Other aspects of sports, like skill, training, mental toughness etc. are essentially equal between the sexes.

2. Is "strength and speed" in golf is less important than it is in other sports?

3. Has the most important results of strength and speed in golf, namely hitting the ball further, been narrowed over the years? Ostensibly by training and technology. For example, Lexi Thomson (average drive 277 yards) hits it almost as far as PGA tour winners like Brandt Snedeker (281 yards) or Steve Stricker (280 yards).

Do you think a top LPGA player could win on the PGA tour?

 

[krupa]

I voted yes since you showed a couple examples where a woman hits it close to the same distance as men.  If Snedeker can win or "compete" (for some value of "compete") then I see no reason why Lexi couldn't.

 

[Jeremie Boop]

I think this topic has been discussed before. The general consensus was that they probably wouldn't be able to win, and rarely make cuts.

Also, it was pointed out that it's not only speed and strength because other sports/games have the same issue which do not require speed and strength. I think one example was pool/billiards where women are rarely able to compete with men.

[David in FL]

5 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

I think this topic has been discussed before. The general consensus was that they probably wouldn't be able to win, and rarely make cuts.

Also, it was pointed out that it's not only speed and strength because other sports/games have the same issue which do not require speed and strength. I think one example was pool/billiards where women are rarely able to compete with men.

Yep.  Along with how would a genuine male scratch golfer do on the LPGA Tour.  Not a super star, but should compete and retain his card, if I remember right.

I can't link to the threads right now, but I'm sure someone can find them.

editted to add that McEnroe is absolutely right, though the PC crowd doesn't like to hear that these days.

Edited June 28, 2017 by David in FL

[colin007]

It's not just strength and speed, men are apparently significantly better putters and have better short games.

[krupa]

Just now, Jeremie Boop said:

I think one example was pool/billiards where women are rarely able to compete with men.

This is a common refrain but a few things to consider.  Historically, women were either bannd outright from entering poolrooms or were discouraged from playing.  Men rarely let women play in their events and when they do there's less than 10 women for 60 - 120+ men  (some major tournaments start with 128 players).  Karen Corr regularly competes at a high level in "men's" events.  In straight-pool Jean Balukas regularly kicked the shit out of men before they banned her from playing with them.   Women rarely compete in straight pool events, however, because until recently they had a fairly lucrative 9-ball circuit and the two games require different approaches i.e., there's no reason to spend time practicing straight-pool when you can practice 9-ball and make money.  Finally, there are a few top men players and all other men are rarely able to compete with them.

[jsgolfer]

We definitely talked about this before.  

An LPGA player has no chance of winning a men's event.  They just don't have the power that you need to play 7,000+ Yd golf courses with heavy rough.  

[chspeed]

1 minute ago, colin007 said:

It's not just strength and speed, men are apparently significantly better putters and have better short games.

I didn't know that. Is that still the case today? What are the statistics? If that is the case, it would be interesting to think about why.

[Jeremie Boop]

1 minute ago, krupa said:

This is a common refrain but a few things to consider.  Historically, women were either bannd outright from entering poolrooms or were discouraged from playing.  Men rarely let women play in their events and when they do there's less than 10 women for 60 - 120+ men  (some major tournaments start with 128 players).  Karen Corr regularly competes at a high level in "men's" events.  In straight-pool Jean Balukas regularly kicked the shit out of men before they banned her from playing with them.   Women rarely compete in straight pool events, however, because until recently they had a fairly lucrative 9-ball circuit and the two games require different approaches i.e., there's no reason to spend time practicing straight-pool when you can practice 9-ball and make money.  Finally, there are a few top men players and all other men are rarely able to compete with them.

I think the example was Jeanette Lee, who was the best woman in the world at one point, who was unable to beat low ranked men? I could be wrong, it's be awhile since the thread was active.

[chspeed]

2 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

We definitely talked about this before.  

An LPGA player has no chance of winning a men's event.  They just don't have the power that you need to play 7,000+ Yd golf courses with heavy rough.  

Oops - should have checked. My apologies.

Yeah, I don't think they could win a US Open or anything too long, but maybe on the shorter courses with less penal rough, I don't see why a woman couldn't compete on a 7000+ yds. course when men that sometimes win on those courses don't drive it much longer than top LPGA players.

I voted "Yes, sometime in the future".

[colin007]

4 minutes ago, chspeed said:

I didn't know that. Is that still the case today? What are the statistics? If that is the case, it would be interesting to think about why.

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/putting-matthew-rudy

[JxQx]

It's probably possible but very unlikely. If shorter hitters can win on the PGA tour occasionally I don't see why a longer hitting woman couldn't.

[chspeed]

2 minutes ago, colin007 said:

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/putting-matthew-rudy

Thanks. Interesting article. But a few thoughts:

1. The article is 7 years old, I wonder if some of the factors they cite (practice, instruction, motivation) have changed.

1. The question is could an LPGA player win. While the average PGA tour putter is much better in the provided stats, the top LPGA putter is better than the average PGA player. So while an average LPGA player obviously couldn't compete, I still don't see why a top one couldn't compete or win.

[colin007]

I think I've seen it said that a legit scratch male golfer could hang with LPGA players. The scratch male player doesn't even play the same game as the guys on the PGA tour.

[Jeremie Boop]

My question is this, even though there are a couple of women on the tour who are within 4-10 yards of some of the shorter hitting men who have won, how do the rest of their stats compare? Are they as good in short game as those men, are they as good on approach shots as those men? You can't take 1 stat and say "look, almost as good as these men who have won, they probably could win too"... Even then, the conditions the women play on are not typically as difficult as they are for the men. Green speeds, rough, pin placements etc.

[mcanadiens]

I think that in a single match, a top LPGA player may occasionally win. Any given day, a female golfer could get hot and the male golfer could have a bad day.

A full field of men, like a PGA Tour event, is a different story altogether. 

[chspeed]

1 minute ago, mcanadiens said:

A full field of men, like a PGA Tour event, is a different story altogether. 

Agreed. Statistically, the odds of any man, except for the very top players, winning on the PGA tour are very small. So in order to have a chance to win, there would have to be many women who play regularly on the PGA tour, who are all as good as the best LPGA players. Clearly, that's not going to happen.

In the purely statistical sense, I guess I would change my vote to say "No, but they could come close", assuming "close" is a top-10 finish.

[rehmwa]

29 minutes ago, JxQx said:

It's probably possible but very unlikely. If shorter hitters can win on the PGA tour occasionally I don't see why a longer hitting woman couldn't.

This

 

(tennis is a completely different thing - but still would be fun to see Serena play the 100th or 200th ranked man.  It would be a good charity event)