Swing looks and feels much better with no ball

[Killa]

Swing looks and feels much better with no ball

And it's not only in my head. My swing looks decent-ish when I don't have a ball to swing at (the club does pass the point where I am set up at address) but when I have a ball set up everything just seems to disintegrate. It's a bit better with the driver because the ball is teed up high. 

 

How would I go and fix that (mental) issue? 1000 repetitions with no ball?

[boogielicious]

@Killa,

I would try slow swings with the ball per the thread below. Also, try not looking at the ball but an inch or two in front. 

 

[RandallT]

The other thread that we should promote more is this one:

For the piece you are working on (and hopefully you can narrow it down to a specific thing, not just generally that the swing is "decent-ish"), you are conscious that you are incompetent at it with a ball. 

You need to get consciously competent with a ball (meaning you are thinking hard about it as you are doing it).

Only after that will you be able to get unconsciously competent at it (meaning you don't need to think about it).

Lots of ideas in the two threads above.

My takeaway is (prob no big surprise): The key is to identify what specifically you are doing correct without the ball. Then do those moves consciously and slowly with the ball. Then it gets ingrained slowly. 

[iacas]

Welcome to the world of the "hit instinct."

The lack of a ball frees you up to swing through without any cares in the world - you can hit the ground or brush the grass just about anywhere so long as you don't chunk the hell out of it, your clubface can be pointed anywhere, there's no target, etc.

I sometimes have students swing back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth… and then put a ball down right when they're not expecting it and they hit a good shot.

Even if immediately after they try to hit a ball doing the same thing, it is like the old swing far more than it is like the new "thing" they're working on.

[Hacker James]

Yup, I am a back yard "Maestro" as well. 

[Killa]

4 hours ago, boogielicious said:

@Killa,

I would try slow swings with the ball per the thread below. Also, try not looking at the ball but an inch or two in front. 

 

 

I will reread that thread. If I would have uploaded the whole video I did two slow repetitions before that full swing. 

3 hours ago, RandallT said:

The other thread that we should promote more is this one:

For the piece you are working on (and hopefully you can narrow it down to a specific thing, not just generally that the swing is "decent-ish"), you are conscious that you are incompetent at it with a ball. 

You need to get consciously competent with a ball (meaning you are thinking hard about it as you are doing it).

Only after that will you be able to get unconsciously competent at it (meaning you don't need to think about it).

Lots of ideas in the two threads above.

My takeaway is (prob no big surprise): The key is to identify what specifically you are doing correct without the ball. Then do those moves consciously and slowly with the ball. Then it gets ingrained slowly. 

I am probably working on too many things at once.

 

I "drank the Kool-Aid" so I'm working on the 5sk. I like 1-3 in my backyard swing. Want to get that to hitting the ball. Thing is that I am a beginner and I don't want to further ingrain bad habits so I probably try to correct too many things at once...

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Welcome to the world of the "hit instinct."

The lack of a ball frees you up to swing through without any cares in the world - you can hit the ground or brush the grass just about anywhere so long as you don't chunk the hell out of it, your clubface can be pointed anywhere, there's no target, etc.

I sometimes have students swing back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth… and then put a ball down right when they're not expecting it and they hit a good shot.

Even if immediately after they try to hit a ball doing the same thing, it is like the old swing far more than it is like the new "thing" they're working on.

So basically you're telling me I need a shrink? ?

[Golfingdad]

32 minutes ago, Killa said:

 

I will reread that thread. If I would have uploaded the whole video I did two slow repetitions before that full swing. 

I am probably working on too many things at once.

 

I "drank the Kool-Aid" so I'm working on the 5sk. I like 1-3 in my backyard swing. Want to get that to hitting the ball. Thing is that I am a beginner and I don't want to further ingrain bad habits so I probably try to correct too many things at once...

So basically you're telling me I need a shrink? ?

I would wildly guess that the difference stems from the feeling that the things you are doing differently in the "ball" swings are things you feel (consciously or not) necessary to make the ball go where it's supposed to go.

I would try two things.  One, just really try and let go of the idea that a good swing on the range must produce a good result with the ball.  You want to see what happens when that no-ball swing happens with a ball in play, so just try and do it "cold turkey" by convincing yourself that the result is entirely immaterial.  Something that might help with that if you have the means is to hit balls into a net.  That way you won't really be able to see if it was a good result or not, and therefore maybe you'll allow yourself to swing freer.

The other thing is something @boogielicious already mentioned:

4 hours ago, boogielicious said:

@Killa,

I would try slow swings with the ball per the thread below.

When you learn a new movement, the tendency is to just try it at full speed, but that doesn't always work too good.  The proper way to introduce it is to start at zero speed (just positions) and then work up to full speed slowly.  Swing as slow as you have to swing to do it properly and only speed up as you can do the movement at the higher speed ... until eventually you can do it at full speed.*

*I acknowledge that this is hard.  I frequently try to jump up to full speed before I'm ready when I'm learning new things.

[Killa]

I do have the means to hit into a net, it's about 10 yards away from the mats though. I'll try it tomorrow. 

And slow and steady :) I'll be practicing at my house with no balls again today. 

[14ledo81]

I have tried the 1000 reps with no ball.  Didn't work for me.  I would come home from work for many days in a row, and walk around the yard hitting specific blades of grass, dandelions, etc.  Put the ball back down, swing goes to crap.

I agree with the slow swing.  Swing at the fastest speed you can, while still making a "good" swing.  It may be very slow (like hit the ball 20 feet slow).

[Buckeyebowman]

On 7/3/2017 at 8:59 AM, iacas said:

Welcome to the world of the "hit instinct."

The lack of a ball frees you up to swing through without any cares in the world - you can hit the ground or brush the grass just about anywhere so long as you don't chunk the hell out of it, your clubface can be pointed anywhere, there's no target, etc.

I sometimes have students swing back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth… and then put a ball down right when they're not expecting it and they hit a good shot.

Even if immediately after they try to hit a ball doing the same thing, it is like the old swing far more than it is like the new "thing" they're working on.

BINGO! We have a winner! And exactly what I was thinking. If you've been around the game for a while how many times have you heard, "Jeez! If I could only hit the ball with my practice swing!" Well, you'd probably hit it worse than you already do!

A practice swing places no demands on you to square the clubface. You're free to let it go through there any way you wish, and there are no consequences. This is where a lot of the "woogie, woogie" pronouncements in books like Golf in the Kingdom and Bagger Vance come from. You know. "Swing your swing", or "Be your swing".

Not that those ideas aren't valid in and of themselves, but they are very hard to do. The hit impulse is a very real thing. We tend to hit "at" the ball rather than swinging through it.

[JonMA1]

It took me a long time to get to the point where I could go from executing my priority in my practice swing to achieving just the tiny bit of success hitting a ball into the net. Taking that success to outside practice was even tougher.

Most of the posts above are spot on. Slowing down, taking partial swings and gradually lengthening my backswing, worrying much less about the shot result than achieving the priority... I finally started to see a change. 

Once I could repeat that little bit of success, I then would try to make better contact using these new mechanics. This was the point that required a lot of discipline. That old "hit the ball" instincts would kick in. It took some effort since that old swing could provide better results. In order to make this new priority stick, I had to change my definition of a successful swing. In my case, getting my weight forward started to feel as good as hitting a long iron pure. (OK... almost as good.)

I'm embarrassed to say this took a few years - partly because I'd give up at some point every season and go back to just hitting the ball. While I've made progress of late, I still backslide on the course. Making this key part of my natural swing is what I'm currently working on. 

This will likely be easier for you. Just know that even good players in this forum have posted that making a change requires a lot of discipline and effort.

Good luck @Killa.