Advice needed how to buy (used) clubs as a beginner

[jaochoo]

Hello everyone. I'm a golf beginner and wanna buy a set of (probably used/second hand) clubs but am not sure how to find/pick the right ones. I'd appreciate your help how to buy clubs as a beginner. 

These are my requirements so far:

• Used/Second hand/Old generation quality/brand name clubs rather than new no-name clubs
• Putter, SW, PW (or 9-iron), 7-iron, 5-iron, hybrid is all I need so far
• Amateur (A) flex
• I'm 6 foot (184 cm) tall
• Budget is 350 $ (300 €)

Questions:

• I heard I should try clubs first before buying. Is that really worth it? I doubt as a beginner I could really tell if the one or the other fits me better.
• I also read that I should use those Ping charts to find out what club length I need. How do they work?
• Can you already recommend good beginner sets? For example, I read about the Callaway Big Bertha set which is supposed to be a good set of clubs for beginners. True?
• Anything else to watch out for?

[jaochoo]

Additional info (can't edit my original post) if helpful: 

• I'm playing 1-2 times per month (driving range and 9-holes course)
• I'm not achieving great distances and I think my swing is rather slow
• I'm currently around 4-5 over par per hole when I play a 9-holes course (equally losing strokes on the fairway/rough as on the putting green)
• I'm considering golf as a hobby, but I'd like to get better at it -- so my goal is to play at a level where I can/could participate in amateur tournaments and where I play 1-2 over par max
• I'm not considering club fitting 

[Vinsk]

And I assume you're right handed?

[jaochoo]

Sorry, yes. Forgot to mention that one.

Also, graphite would be nice (if the budget allows).

Edited July 8, 2017 by jaochoo

[WUTiger]

First of all, have you had any lessons? Two lessons at the start would would be quite useful in getting you started in the right direction.

Golf clubs have three general classifications. Here are some examples for irons:

• Players: Precise clubs, allowing an excellent player to hit  shots with pinpoint accuracy when swung properly. But, the clubs are unforgiving on mishits. Ping S55
• Game Improvement: Fairly precise clubs, allowing a good player to hit decent shots. Some amount of forgiveness (margin of error) for partial mishits. Ping G30.
• Super Game Improvement: Very user friendly clubs, allowing a less skilled player to get halfway decent shots near or on the green. But, excellent players often would want a club capable of more precise shots. Ping GMax.

 

4 hours ago, jaochoo said:

I heard I should try clubs first before buying. Is that really worth it? I doubt as a beginner I could really tell if the one or the other fits me better.

Definitely try out the clubs. And, you can tell whether you can use the club or not. Here are some examples for Ping irons produced circa 2015. If you get the wrong category of clubs, chances are the clubs won't work for you. Some examples.

• S55 irons with True Temper X100 shafts: These are so-called blade clubheads with heavy (130 grams) and very stiff shafts. A person would need clubhead speed of about 110 MPH (driver) to use these effectively. Golfers with less speed would have trouble getting the ball to launch very high off the ground.
• G30 irons with CFS Distance Stiff, 110 gram Stiff shaft. Would need about 90 MPH clubhead speed and a reasonably good swing overall to use effectively.
• GMax irons with CFS graphite, 70 gram Regular shaft. Average golfer with sub-90 clubhead speed who doesn't always hit the ball squarely. If you have higher clubhead speed and a better swing, this club would have combine high-launch clubhead and very flexible shaft to give you a too high, hard-to-control shot.

s for club selection, a common mix of name-brand irons would be 5i through PW. The odd-number club starter sets, once popular, are rare these days. If you're 6 feet tall, under 50 years of age, and of average build, you would probably want R flex rather than A flex shafts.

Do you have access to any golf shops that do fittings? In USA, golf shops that take used clubs in trade-in often will do a basic fitting for people who want to buy them. Not sure what you have available in Germany.

Edited July 8, 2017 by WUTiger

[Piz]

Your first assortment of clubs is unlikely to be your last and, unless you give up the game entirely, anything will do.  Name brands are only relevant to resale value and things like length and flex are best sorted by experience.  Find a cheap set and have at it.

[jaochoo]

37 minutes ago, WUTiger said:

First of all, have you had any lessons? Two lessons at the start would would be quite useful in getting you started in the right direction.

I had about 8 hours or so as part of getting the certificate needed to play on golf clubs in Germany.

37 minutes ago, WUTiger said:

Golf clubs have three general classifications.

I read about that classifications before and was thinking about getting SGI irons as a beginner. Does that make sense?

 

37 minutes ago, WUTiger said:

Definitely try out the clubs.

Ok. But I guess I won't be able to buy used ones then because those are mostly sold online, right? Or would it work to try out clubs at a pro shop and then try to find the same brand and model but older generation of it online? Or I would have to find a shop that's selling used one as well. 

 

If you're 6 feet tall, under 50 years of age, and of average build, you would probably want R flex rather than A flex shafts.

Why should I get R flex rather than A flex shafts? I read online before that a beginner better should get A flex shafts.. 

 

Do you have access to any golf shops that do fittings?

There's a golf shop near me offering a free "static fitting" (20 minutes measuring hand, body, and club speed) as well as a "dynamic fitting" (45-60 minutes static fitting plus measuring ball speed, lie angle, launch angle etc. using Flight Scope) which is not free. There's another shop that's offering fitting using Trackman and Doppler Radar technology for 50/55/75€ (Driver/Putter/Irons). Should I take any of those? I read that fittings don't really make sense for a beginner.

[WUTiger]

I should have remembered golfers need to get a certificate to play in Germany and some other European countries.

1 hour ago, jaochoo said:

There's a golf shop near me offering a free "static fitting" (20 minutes measuring hand, body, ...  Should I take any of those? I read that fittings don't really make sense for a beginner.

You have been doing your research. A static fitting is a good thing for a beginner to get. I measures you and the clubs as far as how it fits your posture (lie angle of irons, which stabilized rather quickly in a swing). As per your hand size, it determines how thick the grips should be. And, some idea of your swing speed: If the shafts are too soft for your speed, you will lose control. If too stiff, you won't be able to get the ball up into the air. (The fitting - if it includes a swing speed check - can help determine if you need A or R shafts).

If the shop gives fittings, possibly they would let you test out some clubs before you buy. Tell them you're interested in used clubs, and see if they will work with you.

The dynamic fittings, as you suggested, are a waste of time for beginners. This would make sense after your swing has stabilized and you're moving on to a second set of clubs.

Let us know how your search comes out, and what clubs you get.

Edited July 9, 2017 by WUTiger

[JonMA1]

Welcome to the forum @jaochoo. Before you read my opinion, keep in mind that @WUTiger and some of the other members are far more knowledgeable than I am....

If I had to do it all over again, I'd have put more thought into a complete new set.

http://www.touredge.com/products/reaction3mens.asp

The same golf shop in my area that sells $1100 players irons also sells some of these lower-end complete sets. In my opinion, I don't think it would be a worse decision to learn the game using one of these sets than to buy an old set of mix and match clubs which may require new grips, or ones that may have been custom fitted for someone else. These sets may be of lesser quality and materials, but as others have said, the first clubs you own likely won't be your last should you continue to play.

If you opt for used equipment, I'd look at super game improvement irons and wouldn't get anything too old unless others you trust can point you in the right direction. Make sure you don't try to learn the game using clubs that have old, worn grips.

You don't have to spend a lot of money on equipment to enjoy this game. Equipment is often much less of an issue than simply not having learned some basic swing mechanics. At the same time, trying to learn on clubs that are 30 years old may not be the best choice.

Whether you buy new or used, I would definitely consider dealing with a golf shop if that's an option. If they are honest, they'll sell you the right equipment within your budget and let you try it out. By the time you decide to take on the challenges this game presents, you'll have learned quite a bit more and can make informed decisions when or if you feel an upgrade is needed.

Good luck!

[WUTiger]

2 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

The same golf shop in my area that sells $1100 players irons also sells some of these lower-end complete sets. In my opinion, I don't think it would be a worse decision to learn the game using one of these sets than to buy an old set of mix and match clubs which may require new grips, or ones that may have been custom fitted for someone else.

You can also get a starter's set, as JonMA1 suggests. A few years back, I did a TST column on the benefits of boxed sets for beginners. In USA, shops that sell the boxed beginners sets often let you test out the different company's models and you pick the one you like best. Also, tjese golf shops can do small adjustments to beginners sets so that they fit your swing: static fitting activities.

And, whether beginner's set or used clubs, a good golf shop is your best bet. You can try the clubs before you buy them.

[MarvChamp]

As you can see from my club list below, I am a Mizuno club ho'. All were/are used and bought online AFTER trying out clubs elsewhere and getting information from Trackman, etc. I refurbished a couple of sets with new shafts fitted to me (an expensive proposition).

I have to say, though, that I have found Maltby's Playability Factor listings helpful. I played Cleveland TA5's and TA6's with graphite shafts for a long time and shot my lowest scores with them. They are listed in the Ultra Game Improvement category, as are my most recent acquisition, a set of mint Mizuno JPX-800HD irons (absolutely wonderful for me!). I checked out the online seller and serial numbers to avoid counterfeits. And I was familiar with the shaft characteristics.

Check out the MPF listings for Callaway. They are given especially high playability ratings.

But remember that I am an old guy and high handicapper. Make sure you listen to the more knowledgeable golfers. Best regards and good luck in your quest, -Marv

[jaochoo]

Thanks for your replies. Much appreciated.

On 9.7.2017 at 4:07 AM, WUTiger said:

A static fitting is a good thing for a beginner to get. I measures you and the clubs as far as how it fits your posture (lie angle of irons, which stabilized rather quickly in a swing). As per your hand size, it determines how thick the grips should be. And, some idea of your swing speed: If the shafts are too soft for your speed, you will lose control. If too stiff, you won't be able to get the ball up into the air. (The fitting - if it includes a swing speed check - can help determine if you need A or R shafts).

If the shop gives fittings, possibly they would let you test out some clubs before you buy. Tell them you're interested in used clubs, and see if they will work with you.

So I went to that shop today for the static fitting... and it was ridiculous and disappointing: All he did was to measure the distance between my fist and the ground when standing straight to tell me that I'd need 0.75-1.00 inches longer clubs. It really was a 20 seconds fitting. No measuring my hands; no measuring my swing (I didn't expect anything with regards to lie angles because that's part of the dynamic fitting, according to their website). 

I guess I could go there again and request the full static fitting. Maybe he was just lazy or didn't see much benefit providing the whole service, as he was pretty fast in making a decision that I should just get a cheap beginner set, don't overthink it, play a season and then sell it.

Some questions:

• Since they would let me try out clubs first, but don't sell any used clubs: Could I just try some of the newest or last year generation clubs and then, if I like one of them, try to find an older version of it online? Or do the generations of the same model tend to be too different from each other?
• I'd just try all beginner sets and SGI irons they have and see what works best for me. Maybe I really can't feel much difference. I'd also request the full static fitting---or do you think I should get that dynamic fitting (which would cost me but would provide information regarding lie angles)?
• Would it generally be a bad idea to invest in a newer generation SGI set (e.g. Callaway Big Bertha, Ping G Max etc.), expecting that I won't quit playing golf anytime soon? I.e. is it likely that I'll see that huge improvements in near future (playing 2-3 times per months, both driving range as well as 9-hole courses) that I need an upgrade?

Edited July 10, 2017 by jaochoo

[Buckeyebowman]

I wouldn't blow a bunch of money on big name, big dollar clubs if I was playing 2-3 times per month! Maybe if I was playing 2-3 time per week!

I'm with Piz. Get yourself a decent set of used clubs, or a beginner's set, that are playable. Then go out and play and practice and learn!

There's no sense trying to set yourself up like a tour pro when you aren't one. Just get yourself some decent equipment with which to get started. I started with a set of "Sam Snead Blue Ridge" clubs from a department store. I think they were swingweighted at about D-11! They were "clubs" in the truest sense of the word. But, I was able to learn from them.

Wherever you start out today, you'll be closer to the ideal than we were back in the day!

[WUTiger]

6 hours ago, jaochoo said:

So I went to that shop today for the static fitting... and it was ridiculous and disappointing: All he did was to measure the distance between my fist and the ground when standing straight to tell me that I'd need 0.75-1.00 inches longer clubs. It really was a 20 seconds fitting. No measuring my hands; no measuring my swing (I didn't expect anything with regards to lie angles because that's part of the dynamic fitting, according to their website). 

Ouch!

This guy is a salesman, not a trained golf club fitter. I regret you were treated so badly.

What I am going to do is call on our TST brothers who have ties to and understanding of golf in Germany. 

Can any of you give @jaochoo advice on how to get used clubs - or new clubs - in Germany?

@Martyn W, @disaster, @RLM, @FrankfurtDave, @graham57, and (in Netherlands), @MacDutch.

You all would know the German and Western European scene better than me!

[MacDutch]

Jumbogolf.de or golfbidder.com or ebay...

If you live nearby the Dutch border, you could go to Kerkrade there is a Jumbogolf that will help you. See the website first and you can call them and ask for advice.

The problem is you just started and there is so much info you don't know who to believe and what to do. 

What I did when I started was to buy a cheap half beginners set. Regular, standard, graphite. Will cost you the price of three greenfees in Germany. Start playing, take some lessons (you could do that at the Sandtrap online!!!!) and after a year decide what to do next. 

 

[jaochoo]

9 hours ago, WUTiger said:

What I am going to do is call on our TST brothers who have ties to and understanding of golf in Germany. 

Awesome, thanks a lot!

 

7 hours ago, MacDutch said:

Jumbogolf.de or golfbidder.com or ebay...

If you live nearby the Dutch border, you could go to Kerkrade there is a Jumbogolf that will help you. See the website first and you can call them and ask for advice.

I was aware of Golfbidder. Actually I found some pretty good deals there (or at least I do believe so), like a Callaway Steelhead XR set for 480€, Ping G set for 515 €, or Titleist 716 AP1 set for 390 €. All at least in decent/appropriate condition, and ranked on various websites for being amongst the best SGI sets. Obviously above my budget, but compared to beginner set not that much more. They also offer a 7 days try-and-return policy for used clubs.

The only thing I don't know is whether the shafts are 0.75-1.00 inch longer as the shop clerk told me I would need. Do you know how that works on Golfbidder? I guess I'd have to ask and maybe replace the shafts (which obviously would mean extra cost and make it not a good deal anymore).

My hometown actually isn't too far from the Netherlands, so I guess I could drive there some time to check out Jumbogolf.

7 hours ago, MacDutch said:

What I did when I started was to buy a cheap half beginners set. Regular, standard, graphite. 

I did some research on beginner sets as well. Recommended beginner sets are, for example, the Callaway Strata set, the Tour Edge Reaction 3 set, and the Wilson Golf Men's 2017 Ultra set. Didn't find any of these in the shop here.

The reason I am leaning towards an SGI set (rather than a beginner set) is because of the marketing that SGI irons will be much easier and fun to play for a beginner because of the forgiveness. Is that really just marketing, or could they actually be much more fun to play as a beginner? Guess I have to try and compare... 

Edited July 11, 2017 by jaochoo

[Buckeyebowman]

I think the first thing you need to determine is whether the "fitter" who measured you was accurate in saying you need longer than standard clubs. Unless you have really short arms for your height, I would wonder.

Then, I would pick up a decent set of well built clubs, used. Brand doesn't matter. Get your hands on some clubs and start hitting some balls! Also, if the grips are a little slick, get your clubs re-gripped. That will let you feel what the club is doing.

I think you need to actually start hitting some balls and learning about your swing, and about the game! All the internet research is a wonderful thing, but there's nothing that replaces first hand experience!

I, and a lot of members here, started with equipment much more primitive than anything you might run into! Yet, we learned how to play. Get yourself some clubs and start swinging!

[Joeyvee]

On 7/8/2017 at 8:33 PM, jaochoo said:

I read that fittings don't really make sense for a beginner.

I have to say that is one of the stupidest things you've ever read. I have a friend who was very athletic and had great swing speeds, very fast. He needed stiff flex, with low trajectory, heavy shaft and a heavy club head to get him dialed in and his game improved in huge LEAPS. 

Suppose you have a 70-80 mph Driver swing speed and a 50-60 mph swing speed with a 7 iron. You would need whatever specs work for that. 

Get fit if you can afford it, just tell the guy you can't order new 2017 GI clubs. 

 

You can always add 0.75 - 1.00 inch extensions to your clubs. 

Edited July 12, 2017 by Joeyvee