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Vinsk

LPGA To Enforce more Strict Dress Code

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24 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

"off course" - and THAT would clearly be a severe crossing of any line (without a specific signed contract the player agrees to)

And we wonder why golf continues to have an ongoing image of a certain type of individual - despite many sincere efforts of pros world wide to try to change that image for the better

2017-07-17 13_26_33-Caddyshack (1980) - Photo Gallery - IMDb.jpg

 

 

LOL! Perfect pic.....But I didn't mean 'off course' as in regular public. I meant sponsor events other than golf tournaments, specific functions where pros are to make appearances. 

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15 hours ago, arab_joe said:

Sponsorship is an interesting angle; do you really think that sponsors of professional golf tournaments are concerned about what the players are wearing?  I doubt it.  I don't see anything offensive being worn, just players trying no ways to stay cool, swing easier, look good etc.  Is it not also the case these days that the majority of players will have their outfits chosen by sponsors (this is my hunch but I may well be wrong - that definitely seems to be the case towards the top end of the men's tour) and not the other way around?

I am a new member here. I think I was the first one (post #57) who suggested this had less to do with what players were wearing on the course as it did with what they were wearing at sponsor events. I am not talking about the companies that sponsor player clothing/attire. I am talking about the companies that put up the millions of dollars to have their names associated with an event. Clearly, the inclusion of prohibited clothing such as cut offs, jeans with holes, and work out wear suggests those were being worn to such sponsor events, since they'd never be seen on a golf course. These are events, usually early in the week before the actual tournament starts, where the sponsors are entertaining clients, often from many culturally diverse world areas, who have an opportunity to meet and rub elbows at a social gathering/cocktail party/dinner party with players from the tour. If such clothing is/was being worn at these types of events, it is not surprising they would complain to LPGA officials. On the assumption that the LPGA doesn't want to have even less events here in the U.S. and certainly doesn't want to lose sponsors, it is not surprising this would come out at the mid-point of the current season since they are trying to finalize contracts and the schedule for next year and years to come.

On the topic of on-course wear, and again this is just my opinion,  let me throw it out. Most of the events on the schedule are held at very nice, high-end clubs. I am currently a member at such a club. Up until a few months ago, a very prominent member of the LPGA was a member at our club. I have also been a member at such clubs in the mid-west. My wife has said on several occasions, along with many of her friends, that there is "no way" the dress of some of the players would be allowed at our club. And I don't think our club is anywhere near as "stodgy" as some of the clubs I am familiar with on the east coast and in the mid-west. It is, quite simply, not considered appropriate country club attire. And yet, some LPGA players come to events hosted at those clubs wearing attire that the members themselves, who are often paying large amounts of money in dues and assessments, etc. to make their course "tour ready," wouldn't be allowed to wear. So I would not at all be surprised if that was the second source of complaints.

Like it or not, but to me this is a simple exercise in following the money. The LPGA certainly isn't being run by a bunch of puritanical idiots. They are business people. And they are behaving just like any corporate business would behave. If the people who sponsor their events and who provide them with access to the best courses in the world complain loud and often enough, the LPGA is going to act, because not only are the salaries of the LPGA staff at risk, but so are the opportunities for players to make a living by playing events hosted by those sponsors and held at those elite venues.

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4 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

I just quickly looked for the shortest LPGA image of a skirt with a collarless sleeveless shirt I could find.  So this is what the uproar is about?

4d7bec12bb0bc9cb6399456df1fe87ec--golfing-outfits-golf-style.jpg

God, I hope not!

That right there is the only reason I ever even tune in to an LPGA event...

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17 hours ago, Joeyvee said:

Could potentially be untrue for some golfers. I would guess several Female Golfers have had clothing deals that rivaled, if not greatly exceeded, their potential revenue from Tour Winnings. That is IF we can draw a comparison between Men's and Women's sports. I know they're very different economically, but IIRC, Michael Jordan made a TON more money off of his shoes than his Basketball contracts and he was the best. 

 

My point was that, even indirectly, those outfits that are chosen by sponsors and worn by players will improve those players' scores.  It may seem tenuous, but if a player has sponsorship then that player will have less financial worries, more time to practice (especially if they are in the "private jet" bracket), better equipment etc. (including, for the likes of Rickie Fowler who has been raised by a number of posters, golf holes in their own gardens!) and that is one of the main reasons that I am against any dress code.

16 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Are ya kidding? Of course. Hell, Ricky Fowler got his boost simply because of that alone. You see all those kids out there wearing bright orange/green outfits? Hell my 11 year old wanted orange Puma shorts and an orange shirt to boot and he doesn't even play golf.

Sorry, I think my point got lost in translation.  One poster had suggested that tournament sponsors were so upset by the way that LPGA players dress that they were considering withdrawing their financial support, and my response was querying this.  I just don't see it (I am no expert in marketing but am willing to be corrected) and your example of Rickie Fowler's orange outfits, flat caps etc. seem perfectly in point; these would not be considered traditional at all, and would likely have been banned if a dress code was brought into effect even 10-15 years ago, but right now they are making Puma loads of money, Fowler loads of money, and helping to grow the game.

16 hours ago, MRR said:

The other side is the tournament sponsor.  We are looking at (compared to other professional sports) rather stuffy and historically conservative country clubs.  Many clubs' patrons like that fact and want it to continue.  The big money national/international sponsors likewise would not want to lose customers or potential customers for appearing to condone unwelcome behavior or attire.

 The big money national/international sponsors likewise would not want to lose customers or potential customers for appearing to condone LPGA dress codes that look like they were drafted in the 1950's by a man...

14 hours ago, Yukari said:

Surely you jest.  Why would anyone wear them? Oh I don't know, to get attention, to get more media time, etc.  You would be surprised how narcissistic some people are in general.  This includes professional golfers (Just look at the instagram and twitter of some of these LPGA players) as they are merely a representative of the society, albeit with a much better talent for playing golf.

As above, I would suggest that the extra attention, media time etc. will, in the long-term, help the players get sponsored etc. and, as I have outlined above, will help them improve.  The best analogy I have would be from snowboarding, where Shaun White was so heavily sponsored that he had the best practice facilities in the snowboarding world; without sponsors he would have been in normal facilities, and would not have been able to develop half of the tricks that he has come up with.  Golfers have that same potential, and I don't think that the LPGA should stand in their way. 

8 hours ago, jpglov said:

And yet, some LPGA players come to events hosted at those clubs wearing attire that the members themselves, who are often paying large amounts of money in dues and assessments, etc. to make their course "tour ready," wouldn't be allowed to wear.

In my opinion, a course that would turn away a professional player, simply because they're showing their arms, wearing a short skirt, jeans etc. is crazy; and more of a problem than the LPGA dress code.  But I admit that I am probably very biased.  I am a member of some amazing ancient courses in Scotland, and they're more relaxed than some of the (pretty dreadful) modern courses that I play here in Dubai; having to wear a collar in extreme heat, having to wear a belt at all times etc.  It annoys me so, so much...

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@arab_joe, the sponsors people are talking about are not the clothing manufacturers. They're the Marathons, the KPMGs, the big old-money companies that are grounded in appealing to the 40-65 market, etc.

The LPGA Tour is not run by morons. They're likely reacting to complaints. Mike Whan has shown himself to be a super progressive commissioner, and so this action comes against that backdrop.

There are reasons for this.

And no, performance is not really one of them. Adding a small collar to what is basically a tank top is not going to have one sniff of a performance change on a player.

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I'm not in favor of places, organizations creating new restrictions (no matter how slight that restriction may be).  Ridiculous long-standing restrictions, on the other hand, I am inexplicably fine with.

But @iacas is correct; these are minor changes and appear to be based on valid complaints and concerns.  Hopefully this isn't the start of a trend to keep adding restrictions and requirements.

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1 hour ago, MRR said:

Hopefully this isn't the start of a trend to keep adding restrictions and requirements.

Because that NEVER happens with control freaks

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1 hour ago, rehmwa said:

Because that NEVER happens with control freaks

Is the current LPGA commissioner a control freak?

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42 minutes ago, Shindig said:

Is the current LPGA commissioner a control freak?

No. So what are you talking about @rehmwa?

This is just a case of the LPGA listening to the people who pay the bills.

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9 hours ago, arab_joe said:

In my opinion, a course that would turn away a professional player, simply because they're showing their arms, wearing a short skirt, jeans etc. is crazy; and more of a problem than the LPGA dress code.  But I admit that I am probably very biased.  I am a member of some amazing ancient courses in Scotland, and they're more relaxed than some of the (pretty dreadful) modern courses that I play here in Dubai; having to wear a collar in extreme heat, having to wear a belt at all times etc.  It annoys me so, so much...

I am not sure, but think you missed my point. I am not talking about a club "that would turn away a professional player," but a club that would turn away a professional event. To begin with, conducting an event is often a controversial topic at a club. It costs a lot of money to hold an event and that money comes from the members. While hosting an event clearly brings some degree of prestige to a club, depending on the specific event, members lose access to the course for not only that week but often several weeks or more, in addition to potentially significant assessments. In extreme cases (like hosting a Ryder Cup), the PGA comes in a year in advance and basically takes over the club's operations. I have a friend who is a member at Hazeltine (host of the last Ryder Cup) and they got to play the 6 months preceding the event by dragging around a piece of synthetic turf and using it everywhere on the course except the greens. So my point was that you have a lot of members at many tour host events who are already predisposed to not like the fact that the event is there, and if they then see tour players in clothing that is considered unacceptable for members to wear...well, you get the point.

If you really were talking about turning away a professional player who is just there for a day of golf, all I can say is that our club frequently has LPGA players (in addition to our former member), PGA and Champions Tour players at our course. While I haven't seen them all, I'm sure that the LPGA players wear clothes that are considered appropriate for a country club.

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3 minutes ago, jpglov said:

I am not sure, but think you missed my point. I am not talking about a club "that would turn away a professional player," but a club that would turn away a professional event. To begin with, conducting an event is often a controversial topic at a club. It costs a lot of money to hold an event and that money comes from the members. While hosting an event clearly brings some degree of prestige to a club, depending on the specific event, members lose access to the course for not only that week but often several weeks or more, in addition to potentially significant assessments. In extreme cases (like hosting a Ryder Cup), the PGA comes in a year in advance and basically takes over the club's operations. I have a friend who is a member at Hazeltine (host of the last Ryder Cup) and they got to play the 6 months preceding the event by dragging around a piece of synthetic turf and using it everywhere on the course except the greens. So my point was that you have a lot of members at many tour host events who are already predisposed to not like the fact that the event is there, and if they then see tour players in clothing that is considered unacceptable for members to wear...well, you get the point.

If you really were talking about turning away a professional player who is just there for a day of golf, all I can say is that our club frequently has LPGA players (in addition to our former member), PGA and Champions Tour players at our course. While I haven't seen them all, I'm sure that the LPGA players wear clothes that are considered appropriate for a country club.

Interesting information, and I get your point ... but I would look at it the other way; if it was my club and I was OK with all of those other hassles you described then why would I care that much about a little butt cheek or cleavage?  The other things - like not really playing a normal round of golf for 6 months - are way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more important and annoying than the clothing of some of those who might be there for one week.  It's not like they are representatives of my club anyway.

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21 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Interesting information, and I get your point ... but I would look at it the other way; if it was my club and I was OK with all of those other hassles you described then why would I care that much about a little butt cheek or cleavage?  The other things - like not really playing a normal round of golf for 6 months - are way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more important and annoying than the clothing of some of those who might be there for one week.  It's not like they are representatives of my club anyway.

I am specifically talking about the members of a club who are NOT OK with all of the hassles. A club is like any other community of people. They rarely are uniform in opinion. Let's say, in this case, that the club's Board, after a lot of debate among the members, makes a decision to host an event. So now there are a bunch of disgruntled members who are at the event and they see players dressed in clothing that they, the members, can't or wouldn't wear and that wouldn't be allowed to be worn by their daughters or (more likely) granddaughters. And they make sure their Board knows how upset they are by that, even though it may mask or simply be additive to their other major concerns. If you're a Board member, would you talk to the LPGA staff about it? Why not try and eliminate one source of member concern, since there is nothing you can do about the other inconveniences that hosting a tournament brings?

All I am trying to do in my posts is explain what I think is the source of the complaints that led the LPGA to the decision that it made. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, but am certain it is real. The LPGA, dating back to Jan Stephenson and Laura Baugh, among others, has tried to leverage sex appeal to generate attention and, now, increased TV and social media exposure and viewership. So they probably don't want to turn that off, within reason. But they are not doing this because Mike Whan woke up one day and said our players are getting too much attention because of the way they are dressed. He is responding to pressure, and almost certainly that is coming from tour sponsors and the venues hosting events.

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49 minutes ago, jpglov said:

I am specifically talking about the members of a club who are NOT OK with all of the hassles. A club is like any other community of people. They rarely are uniform in opinion. Let's say, in this case, that the club's Board, after a lot of debate among the members, makes a decision to host an event. So now there are a bunch of disgruntled members who are at the event and they see players dressed in clothing that they, the members, can't or wouldn't wear and that wouldn't be allowed to be worn by their daughters or (more likely) granddaughters. And they make sure their Board knows how upset they are by that, even though it may mask or simply be additive to their other major concerns. If you're a Board member, would you talk to the LPGA staff about it? Why not try and eliminate one source of member concern, since there is nothing you can do about the other inconveniences that hosting a tournament brings?

All I am trying to do in my posts is explain what I think is the source of the complaints that led the LPGA to the decision that it made. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, but am certain it is real. The LPGA, dating back to Jan Stephenson and Laura Baugh, among others, has tried to leverage sex appeal to generate attention and, now, increased TV and social media exposure and viewership. So they probably don't want to turn that off, within reason. But they are not doing this because Mike Whan woke up one day and said our players are getting too much attention because of the way they are dressed. He is responding to pressure, and almost certainly that is coming from tour sponsors and the venues hosting events.

Uh ... good call with your theory here.

(from the article @Vinsk just posted):

Quote

But my guess is that some of the more – shall we say exclusive? – golf courses complained to the LPGA that certain players did not meet their course dress guidelines at tournaments. And it’s possible that sponsors also complained.

 

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9 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Uh ... good call with your theory here.

(from the article @Vinsk just posted):

Quote

But my guess is that some of the more – shall we say exclusive? – golf courses complained to the LPGA that certain players did not meet their course dress guidelines at tournaments. And it’s possible that sponsors also complained.

Thanks for your note @Golfingdad. I laughed out loud when I read the article @Vinsk posted. Maybe Anya is on this site...???

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Yeah, this whole 'shaming' nonsense has really gotten out of hand. I don't see the new code being any big deal personally. What I find plain obnoxious was making that Wimbledon player change his underwear because it wasn't white. But unfortunately in America unless you comment that an obviously overweight or obese person is beautiful, you'll be marked as a shamer...lol.

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4 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Yeah, this whole 'shaming' nonsense has really gotten out of hand. I don't see the new code being any big deal personally. What I find plain obnoxious was making that Wimbledon player change his underwear because it wasn't white. But unfortunately in America unless you comment that an obviously overweight or obese person is beautiful, you'll be marked as a shamer...lol.

You're suggesting non-white underwear with otherwise white attire?  :-O

;-) 

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