Range-->Course

[Effington]

On 8/18/2017 at 9:19 PM, iacas said:

That's about three too many things.

I appreciate the feedback!

This is a slight tangent to the original topic, but on the topic of practice, it sounds like you're suggesting one thing to focus on at a time.  Wouldn't there be an issue with feedback that way?  What I mean is that you can potentially make one change that has an effect of making the ball do something worse than before.  It's difficult to determine that you're doing a good job when your shots get worse.  Additionally, at what point do you determine you can layer on a second change?  In practice when building muscle memory it would make sense that you can layer on 3 or so changes as you are getting in several reps, so I'm not following the thought that making 3-4 changes in a swing is too much.

Again, I appreciate the suggestions and am excited to be able to take some of these to my game.

[Effington]

On 8/18/2017 at 6:25 AM, saevel25 said:

You haven't been to a few ranges I have then. Sometimes you are searching for a flat lie ;)

If you shoot 118 on a pretty easy course then your handicap will be pretty high. Sorry to say this, but you didn't forget how to swing, you just ran into what happens to high handicap golfers. They have a lot of variance in their game. They can get on a stretch where they match up the clubface to the swing path to produce serviceable shots. Their swings are such that it doesn't let them continue it for long. It just how it is.

If you want to avoid this then improve your swing.

I appreciate the feedback, but I'm not following exactly what your suggestion is.  I know I'm a short golfer that almost never can hit a GIR, sometimes three putts and doesn't consistently strike the ball flush, but the purpose of my post was to ask why I don't experience this on the driving range, but do on the course.

I'm at the range very often, maybe 4+ times per week for the last few months, to craft a nice mid-iron swing.  My initial thought to golf was that if I could hit (a 7 iron) consistently 150 yards and straight, I would be happy with my skill level.  While that's no longer my end goal, it is still a goal I am working on and honestly, am pretty darn good at that when I'm at the range.  I'm just not getting why my shot looks so much different on the course.

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, Effington said:

why I don't experience this on the driving range, but do on the course.

you can hit 100 golf balls in 30  minutes. you can get in a groove that playing golf doesn't let you. It's not uncommon to have a very good range session from time to time. 

[Grizvok]

52 minutes ago, Effington said:

I appreciate the feedback!

This is a slight tangent to the original topic, but on the topic of practice, it sounds like you're suggesting one thing to focus on at a time.  Wouldn't there be an issue with feedback that way?  What I mean is that you can potentially make one change that has an effect of making the ball do something worse than before.  It's difficult to determine that you're doing a good job when your shots get worse.  Additionally, at what point do you determine you can layer on a second change?  In practice when building muscle memory it would make sense that you can layer on 3 or so changes as you are getting in several reps, so I'm not following the thought that making 3-4 changes in a swing is too much.

Again, I appreciate the suggestions and am excited to be able to take some of these to my game.

We've said multiple times that VIDEO needs to be your friend. A good ball strike cannot be the feedback by which you judge a change in your swing. Get lessons from a good pro who can identify a few things in your swing that are of high priority and need fixing. Understand the body mechanics needed to produce the correct result that the pro is having you go for. Maybe find a few slow motion shots of a professional golfer that demonstrates that specific piece really well and finally take that knowledge to the range with a very specific and segmented thing to work on. Included in your range session should be you shooting a lot of video, rehearsing a specific pattern (perhaps without the ball) building that pattern into muscle memory, and checking out the video you just shot to see if the swing you made to hit the ball included the new or improved body mechanics that you are going for and if not what you need to do to change that.

Learning to practice effectively is a whole other skill that you need to learn. It is in fact so important that it probably overrides anything purely golf related.

[Blackjack Don]

You can hit three balls in a row.

It doesn't matter where it goes.

You have to pitch, chip, and putt. Before the next shot.

Every stroke counts.

That's why it's range golf, not course golf. That's not even counting what's going on in that four inches in back of the eyes. And the eyes lie.

[Dakota Atkinson]

Obviously the main thing is to keep working on your swing, because there's a lot to work on when you're shooting 110+. But if you're practicing as often as you say you are, you should be able to shed strokes pretty quickly.

I just had the same issue as you the other day. I had a great lesson/range session, so I went to play 18. Wasn't hitting that great but I was +1 through 6, so I was stoked. But then I hit a couple really bad shots, lost a lot of confidence, and then all the sudden you start to question your mechanics and it spirals out of control. I ended up shooting an 89.

It's very important and very difficult to have the mental toughness to be able to shake off bad shots and not let them affect you, also to stick to your gameplan.

Like previously suggested, I actually just purchased Lowest Score Wins the other day. I have been wanting to put together more meaningful range sessions, and carry a better strategy onto the course, and it seems like it's a perfect book for those two tasks. As far as the mental game goes, I also bought an older Bob Rotella book 'Golf Is Not A Game of Perfect' for like $4 based on the suggestion of my chiropractor haha. Pretty excited to receive and read both of them.

[Lihu]

On 8/16/2017 at 5:49 PM, Effington said:

Hey guys,

I'm usually not much of a sharer, but thought I'd indulge with my latest experience.  I'm sure this is nothing unique, but I'd like to hear how others have resolved the issue I've encountered.

A brief background: I don't get on the course much, but I've been hitting the practice range regularly, and was able to craft a swing that consistently got my 7i to travel about 150, and my 30 degree hybrid to go roughly 160-170 (my two favorite clubs), with a slight turn to the left.  I have a driver but am not consistent with it, so it usually stays in the bag.  I played 18 once this year on a short course and shot 118.

Anyway, I took the day off to play 18 on my local & very short course.  I started off by hitting a small bucket off grass at the driving range, and it was wonderful.  Everything was exactly as I hoped; in fact my clubs were traveling slightly further than I expected (I typically practice indoors with a Trackman, which isn't always calibrated well.)

Off the first tee, things started out perfectly.  Dead straight down the middle of the fairway, solid contact, the exact distance I was hoping for and next thing I know, was putting for par.  On hole two, another par 4, I actually hit the green in regulation.  I did a dance; this was well beyond expectation.  Through six holes, I was +9, with solid contact all the way through, hit every fairway, and on my way to destroying my personal best by a large margin.

Hole 7 was a par 4 with a very wide fairway, so I thought, it's now or never to try out the driver.  I topped it and it rolled on the ground about 100 yards.  I thought, no big deal, I tried it out but let's go back to what was working.  Then I hit the hybrid thin...twice.  It took me five just to get near the green, and a lucky chip at the hole gave me a 7, but it was downhill from there.

The entire rest of the round, I hit maybe 2 or 3 shots with solid contact.  I had completely lost the feel of what a good swing should be, and made it difficult to enjoy the round.  (I had to keep repeating to myself, this is my day off and I'm playing a game for fun, and with perfect weather.)  Despite the blow-up starting on 7, the front 9 was actually a personal best of 53, but the back 9 was simply a disaster.

So my question is, how do you avoid this?  After hole 7, it's like I forgot how to swing.  Another mention of note, on the first 7 holes I had no one in front of me and was playing very fast, on pace to finish in 3 hours flat.  At about 7, I caught up to a pair that was playing at regular speed, which is paced about 4 hours 15 for the round.

After the 18th, I went to the pitching green and was instantly pitching fine; solid contact and just like the range.  Left me flabbergasted.

Cheers and looking forward to insight that will change my life forever.

Could be just the lie is not flat on the course (after the 7th) while on the range the grass is much flatter and more consistent? Was it possible that the first 6 holes you always ended up flat grass and not so after? Were you hitting either of your favorite clubs off the tee? If so, did they fly 150 and 175 as on the range?

In any case, the lie angle can make small variations where you hit the club or for a high handicap it could be the difference between hitting the face and chunking/topping.

Could also all be in your head. . .welcome to the club.

[Effington]

Hi guys, I started this thread last year and throughout the winter, have been practicing indoors pretty regularly.  Anyway, I was on vacation in warm weather and my first time on a course was unfortunately a train wreck.  I went to a practice range the night before and was hitting them hard and straight, and was full of confidence.  But when I got on the course, it was like I didn't know how to play; any and all types of terrible results you can imagine.  It wasn't until about hole 11 where they started to get airborne and somewhat straight, although they were usually line drives.  To make matters worse, I was playing with my in-laws who are very experienced golfers, and this was the first time playing together.

So my follow up question is, is this a typical experience for golfers?  From the responses I'm reading here, it seems like my experience is not normal, but when my dad was younger, he was also a terrible golfer and said it was normal for him.  My brother also plays and while he can hit in the 80's, he also mentioned that his performance at the driving range is always much better than the course.  

[HJJ003]

12 minutes ago, Effington said:

Hi guys, I started this thread last year and throughout the winter, have been practicing indoors pretty regularly.  Anyway, I was on vacation in warm weather and my first time on a course was unfortunately a train wreck.  I went to a practice range the night before and was hitting them hard and straight, and was full of confidence.  But when I got on the course, it was like I didn't know how to play; any and all types of terrible results you can imagine.  It wasn't until about hole 11 where they started to get airborne and somewhat straight, although they were usually line drives.  To make matters worse, I was playing with my in-laws who are very experienced golfers, and this was the first time playing together.

So my follow up question is, is this a typical experience for golfers?  From the responses I'm reading here, it seems like my experience is not normal, but when my dad was younger, he was also a terrible golfer and said it was normal for him.  My brother also plays and while he can hit in the 80's, he also mentioned that his performance at the driving range is always much better than the course.  

On the range you can get into the habit of playing golf swing, but in the course you play Golf. If you are just pounding balls at the range you get familiar with each shot eventually. The golf course doesn’t work like that. Plenty of golfers suffer from what you are talking about. I even fall back to it from time to time. 

[sofingaw]

Like many have said, and like I also do.. 

You groove a swing and can make immediate adjustments on the range until you get desired results, with no penalty.

On the course, the stakes are higher, even in a practice round, and certainly when playing in competition or with others. And every shot counts and can’t be ‘done over’ without heavy penalty. 

Tension comes with knowing this for most of us. Add to that a long list of variables, including uneven lies, pace of play concerns, and club changes swing to swing... we’re destined to swing worse a lot of the time. 

I’ll also add one thing from my personal experience: Alignment.

On the range, I align generally with my feet, hips, and shoulders parallel to my target line, and my shots fly relative to that line. Like they are supposed to. I still mishit a bunch, but the good ones do about what I expect. 

On the course, I invariably line up closed or open to the target line more often than I should, trying to adjust to what I see, and or obstacles to the green. This causes me to hit a lot more over fades, straight pushes and over hooks than I do on the range. A lot more. 

I think alignment discipline would go a long way in helping me, and many of us out there. That and staying focused yet calm, and trusting our swings.

Easier said than done, but I think it’s within reach for us all.

One other note, I do notice that on the course, my distance improves, and so does my ballflight on my good shots. This is most likely due to playing good balls vs. range rocks. I do like that about playing vs. the range. 

Edited May 9, 2018 by sofingaw

[308 Ragin Cajun]

I don't know how many times I've had a good warm  up on the range, only to step on the course and find out I couldn't hit my butt. it seems that  when you go out and have to do it when it counts, nerves take over and you tighten up. The only thing i can think of is to actually play as much s possible, and learn to relax. Once you feel comfortable actually playing on the course, you game will get better.

On 8/17/2017 at 12:28 PM, Rykymus said:

I'm having a similar experience on a fairly regular basis. I just started playing a couple months ago, and am restricting myself to the 9-hole par 3 course nearby. (Which I'm playing at least 4 times per week.) 

I generally play well for the first 6 holes, shooting mostly 3s and 4s, but then I start to fall apart around the 7th hole, shooting 5s, 6s, and 7s. I know it's not the holes, because I have shot well on each of them at least once before. (Just not all in the same round!) I'm properly fueled and hydrated, and I don't really feel fatigued. (Although it is usually in the 90s by then.) My brother suggested that I switch to Gatorade, which I'll try, but I have my doubts.

I honestly wish I could play the course backwards a couple times, just to see if it's fatigue or just a mental issue. I'm surprised at how much of a mental game golf really is. 

Again  pressure from within, you have been plying well, and ll of a sudden you have  chance to post a good score. Not wanting to screw it up, you try harder, which causes you to tighten up..

[DrMJG]

Being asked "what are you working on" at the DR is the focusing on the core of making your range time be worth the time of hitting the balls.  I usually go in with a plan for stroke mechanics or stroke mechanics for specific clubs.  Today my focus was on not standing too close to the ball on address combined with keeping head down and steady.  Nothing else mattered.  Could I have hit the ball faster? farther? Sure, but I was not concerned with anything other than those items of focus.  I try either to spend a few days on a specific item OR I may have a few days of putting it all together.  This week will be one of putting a few items together so that I may then focus of hitting targets, etc.  I agree, when this for me fatigue out, it is because  I have been a bit (or more than a bit) sloppy with mechanics.  Since my practice has been more focused, my rounds have shown the results.

Edited July 29, 2018 by DrMJG

[LeftyWhiff]

On 8/16/2017 at 8:49 PM, Effington said:

Hole 7 was a par 4 with a very wide fairway, so I thought, it's now or never to try out the driver.  I topped it and it rolled on the ground about 100 yards.  I thought, no big deal, I tried it out but let's go back to what was working.  Then I hit the hybrid thin...twice.  It took me five just to get near the green, and a lucky chip at the hole gave me a 7, but it was downhill from there.

The entire rest of the round, I hit maybe 2 or 3 shots with solid contact.  I had completely lost the feel of what a good swing should be, and made it difficult to enjoy the round.  (I had to keep repeating to myself, this is my day off and I'm playing a game for fun, and with perfect weather.)  Despite the blow-up starting on 7, the front 9 was actually a personal best of 53, but the back 9 was simply a disaster.

So my question is, how do you avoid this?  After hole 7, it's like I forgot how to swing.  Another mention of note, on the first 7 holes I had no one in front of me and was playing very fast, on pace to finish in 3 hours flat.  At about 7, I caught up to a pair that was playing at regular speed, which is paced about 4 hours 15 for the round.

After the 18th, I went to the pitching green and was instantly pitching fine; solid contact and just like the range.  Left me flabbergasted.

Cheers and looking forward to insight that will change my life forever.

I've had similar experiences since I began golfing. Last year, I would put up, for me, good 9 hole scores, a few 43s and several mid-40s, only to blow up on the other nine into the mid- to high 50s. I used to think it was from not warming up, and I started getting to the course early, hitting small warm up buckets. But, the blow up could come on the back nine too, and it would seem to bunch up on holes. Hit a terrible shot and all that follows is dreadful. Hit a triple, or an 8 and repeat mayhem for several holes. to lose complete confidence over the ball is a miserable experience. Some of it is the law of averages catching up with those of us with swing flaws. But I think a lot of it is mental. Last year, I started a bit of a routine, walking behind the ball, forcing myself to take warm up shots. Some say to waggle. It helped a bit, but not a lot. I also generally hit well at the range, especially off of mats. Seems like a different game when I go to the course. 

I think a lot of this is nervous tension, at least for me. The tension, frustration, anxiety, anger etc. translates into a tighter grip and stiff arms without me realizing it. Hard to swing a golf club stiff. It helps me to check my grip pressure, and when I loosen up, better shots tend to follow. I'm less likely to hit chips into the next tee box, or run puts off the green. When I'm hitting well at the range, I'm very loose and relaxed and my body moves free with seemingly little effort. My grip when I'm frustrated is often very tight--if I held a baby bird in it, I would probably pop the poor thing's head off, yet I don't realize it. 

Psychotherapy is expensive. So, I go through a routine when I start to have issues. I check my grip pressure and loosen up shot to shot. This does seem to help. Not a cure though for swing flaws, but it might help a bit on the course. It might make rounds more enjoyable. Good luck. I bet many golfers experience what you're experiencing. 

[jimnm]

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 6:21 PM, pganapathy said:

i would suggest learn a pre-shot routine you are comfortable with for every shot and this problem will resolve itself 

This is a good suggestion. Once you develop a pre-shot routine, practice it during your range session. Eventually it will become natural during your rounds of play and can be used as sort of a "reset button" for each shot.

 

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 4:12 PM, Effington said:

This is a slight tangent to the original topic, but on the topic of practice, it sounds like you're suggesting one thing to focus on at a time.  Wouldn't there be an issue with feedback that way?  What I mean is that you can potentially make one change that has an effect of making the ball do something worse than before.

I started taking lessons 6 months ago and asked this question too. Yes, focus on one change at a time. Yes, this could possibly (probably) result in a worse ball flight. But it's temporary.

How do you know when it's time to work on something new?  For the time being, I work on one change for about 2-4 weeks or so. Practicing about an hour, 3-4 times per week. The way I gauge whether or not I'm ready for a new change is by looking at video of my swing, looking at ball flight, and with guidance from my golf coach. I can also tell when the change I'm making starts to feel more natural and automatic.

I imagine as I improve, the changes that I make will become more subtle and demand more precision therefore taking longer to engrain.