Signing for "incorrect scorecard"

[Seals]

If someone shot a 72, and had a 4 on hole 17 and a 5 on hole 18th, but signed for a 5 on hole 17 and a 4 on the 18th, is there a penalty. It is the same score. 

[Lihu]

4 minutes ago, Seals said:

If someone shot a 72, and had a 4 on hole 17 and a 5 on hole 18th, but signed for a 5 on hole 17 and a 4 on the 18th, is there a penalty. It is the same score. 

It's still signing an incorrect card according to 6-6b.

Quote

Players are furnished with scorecards at the beginning any competition that’s played according to the Rules of Golf. According to Rule 6-6b, when the round or match is over, the player should double-check the scorecard and be certain the score for each hole is correct. She should resolve any points of contention with the tournament committee, then sign the card and return it to the committee as soon as possible.

 

[saevel25]

16 minutes ago, Seals said:

If someone shot a 72, and had a 4 on hole 17 and a 5 on hole 18th, but signed for a 5 on hole 17 and a 4 on the 18th, is there a penalty. It is the same score. 

This,

Quote

d. Wrong Score for Hole

The competitor is responsible for the correctness of the score recorded for each hole on his score card. If he returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken, he is disqualified. If he returns a score for any hole higher than actually taken, the score as returned stands.

Exception: If a competitor returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken due to failure to include one or more penalty strokes that, before returning his score card, he did not know he had incurred, he is not disqualified. In such circumstances, the competitor incurs the penalty prescribed by the applicable Rule and an additional penalty of two strokes for each hole at which the competitor has committed a breach of Rule 6-6d. This Exception does not apply when the applicable penalty is disqualification from the competition.

It doesn't matter what the overall score is. It's getting the correct score on each hole right. So, lets say he got the 17 hole right and signed for a higher score on 18 he has to take the higher score. Since he signed for a lower score on 17, then he is disqualified.

 

 

[David in FL]

4 minutes ago, Lihu said:

It's still signing an incorrect card according to 6-6b.

 

Yup.

It's also worth mentioning that only the individual scores for each hole matter.  As long as they're correct, there is no breach if you write down an incorrect total, even if it's lower than your actual total score.

[Rulesman]

To add to the above - it is the responsibility of the committee to determine the total strokes (or points in stableford), not the player's.

[Vinsk]

2 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

To add to the above - it is the responsibility of the committee to determine the total strokes (or points in stableford), not the player's.

So what if they get it wrong? Let me guess, it's the responsibility of the player to insure it's tallied correctly and if the committee gets it wrong it's a DQ for the player.

[saevel25]

8 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

So what if they get it wrong? Let me guess, it's the responsibility of the player to insure it's tallied correctly and if the committee gets it wrong it's a DQ for the player.

No

You still have sign a scorecard. If the player signed for a lower score then he is DQ'd. If the player signed for a higher score he keeps that score. The player doesn't sign for the Stableford points assigned.

Edited October 12, 2017 by saevel25

[iacas]

38 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

So what if they get it wrong? Let me guess, it's the responsibility of the player to insure it's tallied correctly and if the committee gets it wrong it's a DQ for the player.

What does that mean?

If a player's score is added up incorrectly, the committee is at fault. If the player shoots 72 but the committee adds it up as 71, the Committee is at fault, but it's outside the spirit of the game for the player not to mention the error to the committee. Same as if the committee gets 74 instead of 72.

[Fourputt]

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

So what if they get it wrong? Let me guess, it's the responsibility of the player to insure it's tallied correctly and if the committee gets it wrong it's a DQ for the player.

No.  The player is only responsible for getting the individual holes scores correct.  Addition is the job of the committee.  I think that this principle probably stems from the game's origins in match play.  In a match the total score is irrelevant, so getting the individual hole scores correct became the player's sole responsibility.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Fourputt

[Rulesman]

In most handicapping systems (excluding the obvious one), scores are entered hole by hole. The system will get the totals right.

[Lihu]

16 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

In most handicapping systems (excluding the obvious one), scores are entered hole by hole. The system will get the totals right.

Even better is to download the scores from an application like GG. That would be more accurate and less prone to keying errors.

[Rulesman]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

Even better is to download the scores from an application like GG. That would be more accurate and less prone to keying errors.

Someone has to copy the scores from the card into GG in order to download them.

Why do you want to download them and where to?

[iacas]

@Lihu please stop. A GG is not a scorecard.

[Lihu]

Just now, Rulesman said:

Someone has to copy the scores from the card into GG in order to download them.

I was assuming that it's done automatically from application to application with no human intervention.

 

Just now, Rulesman said:

Why do you want to download them and where to?

Download directly from my GG app to my GHIN app. There should be a link as well so you can see exactly how the scores were made in GG.

[Rulesman]

4 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I was assuming that it's done automatically from application to application with no human intervention.

 

Download directly from my GG app to my GHIN app. There should be a link as well so you can see exactly how the scores were made in GG.

It's the score on the card that counts, no matter what system you enter into. 
If you want the total, add it in your head, on a calculator, into a spread sheet or a system of some sort. If it doesn't tally the card is the be all and end all.

 

[Groucho Valentine]

I just double check the hole by hole score, like how it was mentioned earlier. I don't add totals for the person i keep score for, either. I let somebody else worry about math.  Ive never had a problem with a scorecard doing it that way. 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Groucho Valentine

[Buckeyebowman]

On 10/12/2017 at 3:43 PM, Rulesman said:

It's the score on the card that counts, no matter what system you enter into. 
If you want the total, add it in your head, on a calculator, into a spread sheet or a system of some sort. If it doesn't tally the card is the be all and end all.

 

I noticed this at a local University golf invitational. When scores were turned in the head scorer did his thing, and then he called out hole by hole scores to a female compatriot equipped with a calculator. That is what determined the final score.

And I might remind everyone that Roberto DeVincenzo lost the Masters by signing an incorrect scorecard that gave him one more stroke than he actually took!

[David in FL]

10 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I noticed this at a local University golf invitational. When scores were turned in the head scorer did his thing, and then he called out hole by hole scores to a female compatriot equipped with a calculator. That is what determined the final score.

And I might remind everyone that Roberto DeVincenzo lost the Masters by signing an incorrect scorecard that gave him one more stroke than he actually took!

De Vicenzo lost because he signed for an incorrect score on the 17th hole.  A 4 rather than the 3 he actually scored on the hole.

As a result, he was obligated to accept that higher score.  The total score written down was, and is, completely immaterial.