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working the ball easier with low lofted irons?

Hacker James

By Hacker James,
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Hacker James Great Member

Hacker James

I vaguely recall this being covered awhile back, but in my practice sessions I have noticed that I am able to hit an intentional draw or fade with the longer irons i.e. 3 or 4 iron. I have set up a little "wicket gate" about ten feet in front of my pitching station and am able to go around right, left, or through the wickets easier with them. The higher lifted clubs 9 and down, they all have a tendancy to go straight or curve "too much".  I seem to be able to hit the draw, easier than the fade. This in of itself is a little odd in that for years I hit mostly fades/slices . 

"James"

:titleist: 913 D3 with Aldila RIP Phenom 60 4,2 Regular Shaft,  :touredge: Exotics XCG-7 Beta 3W with Matrix Red Tie Shaft:touredge: Exotics EX8 19 deg Hybrid w UST Mamiya Recoil F3 Shaft:touredge: Exotics EX9 28 deg Hybrid w UST Mamiya Recoil F3  shaft, / Bobby Jones Black 22 deg Hybrid:touredge: Exotics EXi 6 -PW  w UST Mamiya Recoil F2 Shaft, SW (56),GW (52),LW (60):touredge:  TGS),/ ODDYSEE Metal-X #7 customized putter (400G, cut down Mid Belly)

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iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

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Yep.

Easier to tilt the spin loft.

Erik J. Barzeski — ⛳ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • Author, Lowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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saevel25 Incredible Member

saevel25

That video is a blast from the past :-D

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: :titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
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Hacker James Great Member

Hacker James

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5 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

That video is a blast from the past :-D

explains how I would always score very well in those aptitude as in seeking employment tests in the areas of reading comprehension, verbal reasoning, math (excellent), decision making, personality e.t.c., but did rather poorly in those linear progression tests where a number of shapes are displayed and you are asked to figure out what the next presentation should be. I guess its akin to spatial recognition or something. In any event, knowing that lower lofts are easier to shape is all I need for now.

"James"

:titleist: 913 D3 with Aldila RIP Phenom 60 4,2 Regular Shaft,  :touredge: Exotics XCG-7 Beta 3W with Matrix Red Tie Shaft:touredge: Exotics EX8 19 deg Hybrid w UST Mamiya Recoil F3 Shaft:touredge: Exotics EX9 28 deg Hybrid w UST Mamiya Recoil F3  shaft, / Bobby Jones Black 22 deg Hybrid:touredge: Exotics EXi 6 -PW  w UST Mamiya Recoil F2 Shaft, SW (56),GW (52),LW (60):touredge:  TGS),/ ODDYSEE Metal-X #7 customized putter (400G, cut down Mid Belly)

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billchao Incredible Member

billchao

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20 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yep.

Easier to tilt the spin loft.

Ah, it was a video! I was going to respond and say you started a thread about it, but I couldn't find the thread so I gave up.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

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NM Golf Super Member

NM Golf

It's also why Bubba's wedge during the playoff in the 2012 Masters is so unbelievable. A 40 yard hook with a 52° wedge?!

 

 

Danny    In my :ping: Hoofer Tour golf bag on my :clicgear: 8.0 Cart

Driver:   :pxg: 0311 Gen 5  X-Stiff.                        Irons:  :callaway: 4-PW APEX TCB Irons 
3 Wood: :callaway: Mavrik SZ Rogue X-Stiff                            Nippon Pro Modus 130 X-Stiff
3 Hybrid: :callaway: Mavrik Pro KBS Tour Proto X   Wedges: :vokey:  50°, 54°, 60° 
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iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

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9 hours ago, NM Golf said:

It's also why Bubba's wedge during the playoff in the 2012 Masters is so unbelievable. A 40 yard hook with a 52° wedge?!

As you know, nowhere near 52° loft at impact. If he was a righty, cutting the ball that much would have been nearly impossible.

Erik J. Barzeski — ⛳ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • Author, Lowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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NM Golf Super Member

NM Golf

11 hours ago, iacas said:

As you know, nowhere near 52° loft at impact. If he was a righty, cutting the ball that much would have been nearly impossible.

Agreed, but it was still a pretty hard shot especially off the pine straw and all. A right handed player would have had to punch out.

Danny    In my :ping: Hoofer Tour golf bag on my :clicgear: 8.0 Cart

Driver:   :pxg: 0311 Gen 5  X-Stiff.                        Irons:  :callaway: 4-PW APEX TCB Irons 
3 Wood: :callaway: Mavrik SZ Rogue X-Stiff                            Nippon Pro Modus 130 X-Stiff
3 Hybrid: :callaway: Mavrik Pro KBS Tour Proto X   Wedges: :vokey:  50°, 54°, 60° 
Putter: :odyssey:  2-Ball Ten Arm Lock        Ball: :titleist: ProV 1

 

 

 

 

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Groucho Valentine Great Member

Groucho Valentine

What bubba did there cant be taught. Sometimes theres just no substitute for freakish talent. Theres probably less than 100 people in the world that can spin a golf ball like that on demand. Im not a big curve guy, but I've noticed its easiest to work the ball (especially fades) with my hybrids. It just never occurs to me to try to work shot shapes with shorter clubs.  

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Hacker James Great Member

Hacker James

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5 hours ago, Groucho Valentine said:

What bubba did there cant be taught. Sometimes theres just no substitute for freakish talent. Theres probably less than 100 people in the world that can spin a golf ball like that on demand. Im not a big curve guy, but I've noticed its easiest to work the ball (especially fades) with my hybrids. It just never occurs to me to try to work shot shapes with shorter clubs.  

I may be totally wrong, but I believe that lefties adapt swings that are more than mirror images of what a right handed player does. Often times it looks (to me) that they have to do a lot more manipulation. This indeed is talent. Just look at the way a left handed person writes on a tablet, he/she seems to have to distort their hands in weird (to us right handers) positions looking as if they are writing upside down.  In the swing shown of Bubba, he uses a LOT of wrist action. It is even more apparent in a person that does only one task with the opposite hand, example, a person who does everything with his/her right hand, but perhaps swings a golf club or tennis racket with the left. Bubba is a phenom in many respects.

"James"

:titleist: 913 D3 with Aldila RIP Phenom 60 4,2 Regular Shaft,  :touredge: Exotics XCG-7 Beta 3W with Matrix Red Tie Shaft:touredge: Exotics EX8 19 deg Hybrid w UST Mamiya Recoil F3 Shaft:touredge: Exotics EX9 28 deg Hybrid w UST Mamiya Recoil F3  shaft, / Bobby Jones Black 22 deg Hybrid:touredge: Exotics EXi 6 -PW  w UST Mamiya Recoil F2 Shaft, SW (56),GW (52),LW (60):touredge:  TGS),/ ODDYSEE Metal-X #7 customized putter (400G, cut down Mid Belly)

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billchao Incredible Member

billchao

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14 minutes ago, Hacker James said:

I may be totally wrong, but I believe that lefties adapt swings that are more than mirror images of what a right handed player does. Often times it looks (to me) that they have to do a lot more manipulation. This indeed is talent. Just look at the way a left handed person writes on a tablet, he/she seems to have to distort their hands in weird (to us right handers) positions looking as if they are writing upside down.  In the swing shown of Bubba, he uses a LOT of wrist action. It is even more apparent in a person that does only one task with the opposite hand, example, a person who does everything with his/her right hand, but perhaps swings a golf club or tennis racket with the left. Bubba is a phenom in many respects.

Bubba is known for curving the ball a lot. It's how he plays golf. The rest of your post seems like a bit if a reach. 

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Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

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      Honestly, unless there's something about that rough there that makes it abnormally penal or a lost ball likely, this might be the play. I don't know how the mystrategy cone works, but per LSW, you don't use every shot for your shot zones. In that scatter plot, you have no balls in the bunker, and 1 in the penalty area. The median outcome seems to be a 50 yard pitch. Even if you aren't great from 50 yards, you're better off there than in a fairway bunker or the penalty area on the right of the fairway. It could also be a strategy you keep in your back pocket if you need to make up ground. Maybe this is a higher average score with driver, but better chance at a birdie. Maybe you are hitting your driver well and feel comfortable with letting one rip.  I get not wanting to wait and not wanting to endanger people on the tee, but in a tournament, I think I value playing for score more than waiting. I don't value that over hurting people, but you can always yell fore 😆 Only thing I would say is I'm not sure whether that cone is the best representation of the strategy (see my comment above about LSW's shot zones). To me, it looks like a 4 iron where you're aiming closer to the bunker might be the play. You have a lot of shots out to the right and only a few to the left. Obviously, I don't know where you are aiming (and this is a limitation of MyStrategy), but it seems like most of your 4 iron shots are right. You have 2 in the bunker but aiming a bit closer to the bunker won't bring more of your shots into the bunker. It does bring a few away from the penalty area on the right.  This could also depend on how severe the penalties are for missing the green. Do you need to be closer to avoid issues around the green?  It's not a bad strategy to hit 6 iron off the tee, be in the fairway, and have 150ish in. I'm probably overthinking this.
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