New-ish vids from Grant Waite, Trackman Maestro, Sasho MacKenzie

[Hacker James]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

I saw it as flattening the wrist even more. GG is pretty adamant about a passive clubhead (except for the turn down, which I don't yet do).

I was mostly referring to the original video with Grant Waite.

[billchao]

3 hours ago, Hacker James said:

other than consciously laying down the club early in the d/s, is there a way to achieve the Ulnar Deviation?

You can shallow the shaft without consciously laying it down, yes. Feels vary from person to person, though. Some people need to feel that shaft lay down.

3 hours ago, Hacker James said:

I have tried to swing the way they are suggesting and it is hit or miss. If I relax, I can do it readily, but it feels like a loss of power. OTOH, I also noticed that the ball seems to have higher trajectory from the get go.

That's to be expected. You really have to slow down to make changes in your swing motion. It can take a while to get it to the point where you can do it with speed, just ask @nevets88 how long he's been working on this move. 

[Hacker James]

1 minute ago, billchao said:

You can shallow the shaft without consciously laying it down, yes. Feels vary from person to person, though. Some people need to feel that shaft lay down.

That's to be expected. You really have to slow down to make changes in your swing motion. It can take a while to get it to the point where you can do it with speed, just ask @nevets88 how long he's been working on this move. 

Thanks. Patience is not one of my prevalent virtues.

[billchao]

30 minutes ago, Hacker James said:

Thanks. Patience is not one of my prevalent virtues.

You're going to want to exercise it if you want to make real and lasting changes to your swing. It's similar to physical therapy. If you break your leg, you don't start running as soon as the cast is off.

[Hacker James]

12 minutes ago, billchao said:

You're going to want to exercise it if you want to make real and lasting changes to your swing. It's similar to physical therapy. If you break your leg, you don't start running as soon as the cast is off.

prolly pursue it in my daily routine to some extent. I don't bother to post in the 5 min challenge, because it is something I do every day, several times a day. I just pop out my bedroom door to my practice area. Usually after noting something online, or most often just because I feel like it. I do try to practice with some sort of purpose in mind however.

[colin007]

11 hours ago, mvmac said:

It's partially a fad and partially correct info. It's become more popular because of research/information from these guys.

 

Holy crap, that was a good video. 

Is Como still coaching Tigs?

[iacas]

Just now, colin007 said:

Is Como still coaching Tigs?

Yeah.

[Mr. Desmond]

3 hours ago, Hacker James said:

I was mostly referring to the original video with Grant Waite.

So was I - flattening the wrist more - or bending it into the wrist even more - is that the ulnar whatever? Bending it so the clubface opens slightly

[nevets88]

3 hours ago, billchao said:

You can shallow the shaft without consciously laying it down, yes. Feels vary from person to person, though. Some people need to feel that shaft lay down.

That's to be expected. You really have to slow down to make changes in your swing motion. It can take a while to get it to the point where you can do it with speed, just ask @nevets88 how long he's been working on this move. 

Yep, the progression is out there in my swing thread.

If anyone is following Dana Dahlquist, you can see how he shallowed out Charles Howell's swing recently. I have the link somewhere. It looks different now, especially the driver swing.

Update: I think the difference in swings old and new demonstrate some of what is talked about in the above videos. There is not the  pull down in the current swing you see in the old swing.

Old:

Today-ish:

 

[colin007]

55 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

So was I - flattening the wrist more - or bending it into the wrist even more - is that the ulnar whatever? Bending it so the clubface opens slightly

I'd like to know too, is the ulnar move towards the forearm (like a slap) or is it towards the pinkie (like a karate chop)?

[Hacker James]

1 hour ago, Mr. Desmond said:

So was I - flattening the wrist more - or bending it into the wrist even more - is that the ulnar whatever? Bending it so the clubface opens slightly

oh Okay, I was confused as you were talking about cupping wrist and achieving a closed club face. No sweat, we are on the same page. That's the trouble with the English vernacular , too easily misconstrued.  I missed the fact that you said "if" the wrist is cupped, you will have a closed clubface.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Hacker James

[nevets88]

10 minutes ago, Hacker James said:

oh Okay, I was confused as you were talking about cupping wrist and achieving a closed club face. No sweat, we are on the same page. That's the trouble with the English vernacular , too easily misconstrued.  I missed the fact that you said "if" the wrist is cupped, you will have a closed clubface.

Attacking this another way, make the clubhead go further away from you and more behind you. 

[colin007]

14 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Attacking this another way, make the clubhead go further away from you and more behind you. 

So both a slap and a chop motion? Moving towards both the forearm and the pinkie, and not one or the other exclusively?

[Hacker James]

Getting closer to Hoganesque territory, with a "twist". I think I will stop reading now, before I confuse myself.  Still...good stuff here.

[mvmac]

10 minutes ago, colin007 said:

So both a slap and a chop motion? Moving towards both the forearm and the pinkie, and not one or the other exclusively?

Take it to the top of the backswing. Start the downswing (lead hip staying lower as you rotate, which also gets the weight forward) but leave the arms and hands in the same position they were at A4, or close to it, the lead arm will load against the chest, the trail shoulder scap will depress, the shallowing motion typically takes care of itself if you do that. Then the arms can fire down with the pivot. Should feel a good amount of stretching going on with the transition move.

[Jack Watson]

The guys in the original post are looking at the swing from a certain perspective.  Primarily kinematically.

When you look at it this way you paint yourself into a corner of complexity imo.  I.e. Every part of the body must move exactly to within the margin for error which is the sweet spot.

From a motor control perspective,  things are very different.  We have the ability to self organize.

I have a hard time with the kinematic focus because imo it's unrealistic to expect that every body part must be trained to move within a ridiculously small margin for error.

Theres a place for some kinematics.  I just think in golf it's way blown out of proportion to the point of absurdity.

[Mr. Desmond]

5 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

The guys in the original post are looking at the swing from a certain perspective.  Primarily kinematically.

When you look at it this way you paint yourself into a corner of complexity imo.  I.e. Every part of the body must move exactly to within the margin for error which is the sweet spot.

FrI have a hard time with the kinematic focus because imo it's unrealistic to expect that every body part must be trained to move within a ridiculously small margin for error.

Theres a place for some kinematics.  I just think in golf it's way blown out of proportion to the point of absurdity.

Some of the instructors above claim that the sequence described above is what many old-timers did - I know Gankas has said it - and I think you are overblowing the margin of error - in a nutshell, they're saying less hip slide, more rotation, don't yank the arms. Of course, like any golf swing, they prefer certain patterns.

[iacas]

18 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

I have a hard time with the kinematic focus because imo it's unrealistic to expect that every body part must be trained to move within a ridiculously small margin for error.

Every golf swing has to perform within a "ridiculously small margin for error" if you want to hit the ball well.

They're not saying (I haven't watched the second video) that everyone must do everything exactly the same.

And, as I said in the "everyone is a feel player" topic (below), mechanics are how you talk about things generally, but feels are how you talk about things specifically (one individual).

So…?