Mark Broadie Strokes Gained Scrambling Piece

[nevets88]

So we learned the long game is more important than the short game for scoring, in the short game, the short game is more important than the even shorter game it seems.

Quote

Strokes gained scrambling allows us to gauge with great clarity whether a pro's wedge wizardry or putting prowess contributes most to his short-game magic. 

http://www.golf.com/tour-news/2017/09/27/strokes-gained-scrambling-helps-separate-wedge-wizards-and-putting-aces

[David in FL]

Interesting that Jordon Spieth, who's always acclaimed for his putting, gains most by his wedges, and is one of the few towards the top that actually loses strokes on putting...

 

[saevel25]

13 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Interesting that Jordon Spieth, who's always acclaimed for his putting, gains most by his wedges, and is one of the few towards the top that actually loses strokes on putting...

 

Jordan is a great putter from mid to long range. He's not an elite putter inside 10 Ft (which makes up about half of his putts attempted).

Rank of percentage of putts made inside 10 FT.
2016: 50th
2015: 52nd
2014: 91st
2013: 123rd

Outside of 15 FT he's been one of the most consistently elite putters out there.

[DaveP043]

58 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Rank of percentage of putts made inside 10 FT.
2016: 50th
2015: 52nd
2014: 91st
2013: 123rd

Outside of 15 FT he's been one of the most consistently elite putters out there.

An important part of this, he's improved on what used to be a weakness.  He may not be elite, but he's closed the gap a bit.

[Shindig]

I'd have to check if I can explicitly look for this in GG, but I think most of my scrambling can be attributed to my putter, not my wedge.  At least lately.  I really should over-do a practice on the basic chip shots to balance that out a bit. 

[p1n9183]

I think that you can separate yourself from the field more with wedge play than putting because it´s just harder. On putting the ball it´s always on a perfect surface, on short game it can be on nice fairway or in the fescue or buried in the sand.

Same applys if you compare wedge play agaist approach to the green and the same with driving vs approach to the green.

Driving > approach to the green > wedge lay > putting. Sory dear pelz...

[RandallT]

This whole concept seems nuanced, as I think about it. The chart says zero about the relative importance of short game vs. long game.

It is strictly something like (and correct me if I'm wrong):

"For those that get up and down well relative to the field, their play from off the green accounts for more of that advantage than the play on the green." Ok, fine.

But that's all you can conclude from this.  Presumably, a "perfect player" who hit every green would not gain any strokes in short game-- but that's just fine, because he's putting for birdie and not trying to scramble and "gain strokes" that way. 

A guy who gains strokes scrambling is still generally losing strokes to the guy who puts the approach on the green, correct?

 

16 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

Driving > approach to the green > wedge lay > putting. Sory dear pelz...

A bit off topic from this thread, so I don't want to derail the point in the OP, but isn't it generally accepted that the largest area for separating yourself on tour is in approach play (i.e., approach to the green > driving)?  

Or is that not what you were saying here in that quote, @p1n9183 ?

I was searching for something that had different percentages, but this graphic below is generally what I was trying to get at ( https://www.golfdigest.com/story/is-putting-on-the-pga-tour-overrated-this-incredible-chart-seems-to-suggest-so). In this chart, they seem nearly tied, so perhaps driving = approach play is even reasonable. I just seem to recall seeing data showing more clearly that approach > driving. And those are each greater than short game and putting.

 

 

 

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, RandallT said:

This whole concept seems nuanced, as I think about it. The chart says zero about the relative importance of short game vs. long game.

It is strictly something like (and correct me if I'm wrong):

"For those that get up and down well relative to the field, their play from off the green accounts for more of that advantage than the play on the green." Ok, fine.

Right. Those who do well at scrambling do so more because of their chip shots than the putts that result.

3 minutes ago, RandallT said:

A bit off topic from this thread, so I don't want to derail the point in the OP, but isn't it generally accepted that the largest area for separating yourself on tour is in approach play (i.e., approach to the green > driving)?

Yes, it's: Approach Shots > Driving > Short Game > Putting

[MuniGrit]

There is only one tell all stat that is foolproof.