When Do You Lay Up?

[Pablo68]

On 1/1/2018 at 6:13 PM, iacas said:

You owe it to yourself to actually test that out.

A lot of golfers think they're bad at some mid-range style shots like your 30-50 yards, but they're still better from there than they are from 80-100. Their expectations are out of whack, though: they hit it to 10 feet from 50 yards and are pissed, while they hit it to 18 feet from 80 yards and are pretty happy. (In reality, both shots were pretty much world class, and the ten-footer is eight feet closer to the hole than the one from 80 yards.)

Virtually everyone we've checked actually hits it closer, on average, from 30-50 than 80-100. The few who didn't simply spent about 30 minutes figuring out how to hit those shots, and then were better from that range than from 80-100.

<promotion>@Pablo68, you should pick up a copy of LSW if you haven't already.</promotion>

I invariably have a few shots a round where I have to play that yardage and I try to keep my expectations of the results reasonable. For me I tell myself not to get cute and the primary goal is to put it on the green and give myself a putt for par and hopefully limit the damage to a bogey at worst.

[Lihu]

9 hours ago, Pablo68 said:

I invariably have a few shots a round where I have to play that yardage and I try to keep my expectations of the results reasonable. For me I tell myself not to get cute and the primary goal is to put it on the green and give myself a putt for par and hopefully limit the damage to a bogey at worst.

That's kind of my game as well. The number of shots I have in that range don't really justify the amount of effort I'd need to put into it to shoot them well.

Not like I'm going to be saving par from 80 yards without the euphoric celebrating like I did the impossible.

[HJJ003]

This past year I played up any time that OB, water hazard, or all sides of the green were bunkered. I also laid up any time I was more than about 175 yards out because I had zero confidence with those types of shots. I can count a few times where I broke my rule and it never went well for me lol. We will see what the New Year brings in terms of strategy. 

[Lihu]

11 minutes ago, HJJ003 said:

This past year I played up any time that OB, water hazard, or all sides of the green were bunkered. I also laid up any time I was more than about 175 yards out because I had zero confidence with those types of shots. I can count a few times where I broke my rule and it never went well for me lol. We will see what the New Year brings in terms of strategy. 

Cheers to your new strategy!

I might agree with the OB depending upon the situation, but not the water hazard. If you lose a stroke every time because you're afraid of hitting into the water then you lose out on the chance that it doesn't go in and it's only a stroke penalty drop anyway.

A green side bunker is a lot better than losing a stroke all the time.

Laying up outside 175 makes no sense unless you're trying to avoid OB or jail.

[Yukari]

Number of factors including: how I am playing that day (#1 factor), distance, lie, weather, where the hazards are, etc.

Generally, if I am having an off-day with my swing, I lay up anything more than 225 yds or so.  If there are no hazards nearby, then it's a different story.

[HJJ003]

31 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Cheers to your new strategy!

I might agree with the OB depending upon the situation, but not the water hazard. If you lose a stroke every time because you're afraid of hitting into the water then you lose out on the chance that it doesn't go in and it's only a stroke penalty drop anyway.

A green side bunker is a lot better than losing a stroke all the time.

Laying up outside 175 makes no sense unless you're trying to avoid OB or jail.

Agreed on all of the above. I am hoping with the understanding of my shot zones and more consistent practice I will be be able to "be bold" more often!

[Lihu]

3 minutes ago, HJJ003 said:

Agreed on all of the above. I am hoping with the understanding of my shot zones and more consistent practice I will be be able to "be bold" more often!

Be bold!

 

[mdl]

On 1/1/2018 at 10:13 AM, iacas said:

A lot of golfers think they're bad at some mid-range style shots like your 30-50 yards, but they're still better from there than they are from 80-100. Their expectations are out of whack, though: they hit it to 10 feet from 50 yards and are pissed, while they hit it to 18 feet from 80 yards and are pretty happy. (In reality, both shots were pretty much world class, and the ten-footer is eight feet closer to the hole than the one from 80 yards.)

This for sure.  I think this is the myth I actually hear most often (compared to, say, short game is more important or incorrect ball flight laws).  And I think Erik's guess at the reason it's so prevalent is exactly right.  I mean, I have the same psychology.  If I put a full SW to 40 feet I know it's not actually an outlier bad shot, but I'm unhappy about it. If I put a 50 yard LW from a good lie in the fairway to 40 feet, I'm pretty pissed, even though if I had GG or the like I'd probably see that it's below average but not as much as I'd like to think.  But I've looked at my results enough to know that my average distance to the pin is much lower on a 50 yard LW than on a full SW.  

[Fourputt]

On 12/6/2017 at 5:48 PM, JonMA1 said:

The three things I can think of that determine when I lay up and when I go for a green are 1) distance, 2) lie, and 3) how protected the green is. (There are other factors such as the weather or how I'm playing on a particular day, but I thought it would be better to keep it simple.)

I'll start off by saying that I can't remember ever laying up on a par 3. I don't play long courses or from the back tees much, so a par 3 beyond 200 yards is rare. Most of those longer par 3's generally have more room for less than perfect shots. So I'm mostly asking about approach shots from the fairway or rough.

Distance 

This is probably the biggest determining factor for me. My longest club for approach shots is my 5w (I recently gave my 3w away). While GG shows I average 192 yards with that club, 180 yards from off the deck is a decent shot. I rarely try approach shots with this club, but will occasionally. The other factors - the target and the lie - play a bigger role with this club than with my long irons. I've learned not to hit out of the rough with this club unless the ball is sitting up, and anything with much of a slope almost guarantees a wayward shot or poor contact. It's something I have to work on but for now, better to lay up than to hit out of a bad lie to a tight green with this club.

As far as irons, I try not to lay up when shorter than 150 yards (6 iron) regardless of how tight the green is - as long as the lie isn't horrible. I will try for the green with my 5 or 4i as long as there's room somewhere for a miss.

Lie

I'd define a decent lie as being on the fairway or in normal rough and sitting up. The ground doesn't have to be perfectly flat, but downhill lies are tougher for me than uphill ones. As the slope increases, so does the difficulty.

Fairway bunkers can be tough. I've hit greens from them, but it's tough for me to pick the ball out of a bunker with any kind of consistency. When hit cleanly, I get close to my standard distances... maybe a bit less.

The thick rough is difficult for me. I have to remember to grab more club and I rarely get good contact and a high ball flight. If I have a water hazard in front of a green, I would have to think hard about trying for the green from 150 yards with a ball in this thick stuff.

As for trouble shots, I'll try to get close to the green with them, but I don't really consider that going for it. If it happens great, but that result is generally more of a happy accident.

Greens

While I don't hit well from green side bunkers, they aren't as bad as water, and water isn't as bad as thick woods or brush (as in always a lost ball or unplayable lie). Any green that is free of this on three sides is an easier green. I don't mean easy to hit, just easier to go for - even with a fairway wood.

Water or brush tight on two sides is an average hole. I'd likely lay up if left with more that 180 yds, but with an ok lie, I'm probably going for it from 170 (4i). These are the kinds of holes where shot zones really help. As a high capper, I obviously can't hit small greens very often with long irons. But I'd like to think I can shift the center of my shot zone over to miss the trouble areas. If I have two sides of a green that are open, I like my chances of leaving myself a short chip at worse.

There are a couple holes I play that have trouble tight on all 4 sides. These are the holes I'll go for with mid irons and think twice about with anything longer. Not to say I never hit long irons into them, but I'd need a good lie, a good angle and a bit of confidence on that day. 

---

So with my giant shot zones and wimpy distances, I'll rarely go for the green from 190 (off the deck), but will rarely lay up from 150 and in.

How about anyone else? When do you decide to play it safe and why?

Since I don't do shot zones or other quantitative analysis, I simply do it when experience says it's the right choice for me.  I know my strengths (few) and weaknesses (many), and I know my tendencies, so I play each hole with that in mind.  Even on the same hole with the same situation I may play it differently on different days simply going by how my swing is that day, or maybe because of a competition situation that dictates a different choice.  I make my decision based on danger, wind, lie, match or tournament situation, and whether I feel that I have control of my swing on a given day.  Variation on any of those can affect my decision on the same hole on different days.