Why all the underflex?

[wakefield724]

I have noticed golf companies are making their shafts entirely too weak. My two friends are very new to golf. While hitting at a simulator they were swinging a 91mph swing speed which is average. Their spin rate with reg flex was both over 4200. With a stiff flex it was still around 3000. With an x-stiff shaft they were at the desired spin rate of 2300ish. My club head speed is only 116 and I have to use a 2x stiff to get a decent spin. 

Regular flex is not made for regular people. So my question is why all the under flex 

[kpaulhus]

Maybe they're beefing them up to help with egos and all the stiff flexes? My swing speed is similar to yours and I use an X Flex. I didn't realize they made a 2X flex unless you got into the long drive stuff. 

[wakefield724]

1 hour ago, kpaulhus said:

Maybe they're beefing them up to help with egos and all the stiff flexes? My swing speed is similar to yours and I use an X Flex. I didn't realize they made a 2X flex unless you got into the long drive stuff. 

Yea I carry 2 drivers. One x stiff 45” if it’s a thinner fairway.  Then a 2x 48” if I can afford to crank one. 

[Mr. Desmond]

It's not the flex - I would look at their ball position and whether they are swinging up on the driver. I use R flex, my speed is 91-95, depending on the season, my launch with a 9 deg driver is 15-16, and spin about 2300-2550.

About 5-10 yrs ago, OEM shafts in fairways and hybrids were weak. Shafts are better these days.

[allenc]

I swing 95-100 mph and use a 10.5 head and an R flex that you can shake back and forth with one hand and get quite a lot of bending.  I still get 2300-2600 spin and 12-16 degree launch if I hit it well.  So a whippy shaft doesn’t seem to hurt much.

[Typhoon92]

Since they are " very new to golf" I would guess there is a lot going on in their swings that's not good.  Hate to bring up the "fitter" word but flex is not the problem solver.   Neither is low spin alone.

[iacas]

Measuring whether the flex is correct just by the spin is NOT at all the way to do it.

[wakefield724]

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

Measuring whether the flex is correct just by the spin is NOT at all the way to do it.

If your spin is 4400 with a driver that’s entirely too high. To lower it you need a stiffer flex. Correct me. 

[Buckeyebowman]

Besides, I don't think flexes being "too weak" is hardly an industry wide phenomenon. Shaft manufacturers are free to interpret their flexes any way they please. As far as shafts being "under flexed" we all know some guys who can't crack 90 mph with their driver, yet insist they need a "stiff" flex. Could be nothing more than a marketing campaign designed to sell guys what they "think" they need.

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, wakefield724 said:

If your spin is 4400 with a driver that’s entirely too high. To lower it you need a stiffer flex. Correct me. 

You didn't read what I wrote.

Maybe the flex is correct for them, but they're doing something else to generate too much spin. Like… flipping and delivering too much loft at impact. Sure as hell wouldn't be the first time.

You don't fit for driver shaft flex based on spin alone. I could spin an XX flex shaft too much with poor technique and a 95 MPH clubhead speed.

[wakefield724]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

You didn't read what I wrote.

Maybe the flex is correct for them, but they're doing something else to generate too much spin. Like… flipping and delivering too much loft at impact. Sure as hell wouldn't be the first time.

And if they are doing that (which is hard to believe 3 different ppl are doing exact same thing) giving them a club to fit their swing would benefit them. 

[iacas]

Just now, wakefield724 said:

And if they are doing that (which is hard to believe 3 different ppl are doing exact same thing) giving them a club to fit their swing would benefit them. 

I don't find it hard to believe. You said they're beginners. Beginners tend to do things like hit down steeply. That generates too much spin (without making a high launch angle).

[hilmar2k]

12 hours ago, wakefield724 said:

And if they are doing that (which is hard to believe 3 different ppl are doing exact same thing) giving them a club to fit their swing would benefit them. 

Step 1: Correct the swing 

Step 2: Fit for clubs

Never a good idea to fit clubs to correct for a poor swing, especially for a beginner. Their swing is likely to change drastically in a relatively short time if they start playing regularly, or *gasp*, get a lesson. 

[klineka]

15 hours ago, wakefield724 said:

Yea I carry 2 drivers. One x stiff 45” if it’s a thinner fairway.  Then a 2x 48” if I can afford to crank one. 

Do you carry 14 clubs per the rules of golf or do you have more than 14? I've never heard of anyone actually gaming two drivers before.

Only thing close to this is if someone is doing an on course test or demo with a club. But doesnt sound like thats the case here. 

 

Back on topic, I've seen it firsthand, my spin has fluctuated by 1,500 RPM simply based on delivery of the clubhead and strike alone. 

My swing speed is around 110 and I was fit with a stiff shaft at a TaylorMade fitting.

I highly doubt someone with a 91 mph swing speed needs an x stiff shaft. What was the AoA and the launch angle with each of those different shafts that they tried?

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, klineka said:

Do you carry 14 clubs per the rules of golf or do you have more than 14? I've never heard of anyone actually gaming two drivers before.

3 minutes ago, klineka said:

I highly doubt someone with a 91 mph swing speed needs an x stiff shaft. What was the AoA and the launch angle with each of those different shafts that they tried?

Yeah, I suspect the AoA and swing direction are going to be negative…

[kpaulhus]

55 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yeah, I suspect the AoA and swing direction are going to be negative…

As with 75%+ of new golfers. Go to any fitting day and most golfers do not swing the driver properly, so its very possible for a new golfer with any swing speed to generate 4500 spin with any kind of shaft. 

[lastings]

3 hours ago, klineka said:

Do you carry 14 clubs per the rules of golf or do you have more than 14? I've never heard of anyone actually gaming two drivers before.

 

Phil Mickelson did it for a few tournaments a few years ago..  

16 hours ago, wakefield724 said:

If your spin is 4400 with a driver that’s entirely too high. To lower it you need a stiffer flex. Correct me. 

kind of seems like you are creating an argument, rather than listening.   you are talking to a golf pro who is a scratch golfer.   I would imagine that he's tested a couple different flexes with a couple different people.   He probably has some decent insight here.   

but, long story short, flex doesn't create spin on it's own.  attack angle, face angle, and path do.   if it's too stiff and you're costing yourself whip, which reduces clubhead speed, costing you distance.   If there is too much flex, there is too much whip, which makes it difficult to square the clubface.   

[NM Golf]

As @iacas said, there is way more to it than just flex when it comes to getting the right amount of spin. They are obviously doing something incorrectly in their golf swing and just putting a band aid on it by giving them a shaft that is woefully too strong for them will not benefit them at all in the long run. 

FWIW I have a swing speed in the neighborhood of 120mph and a normal x-stiff works just fine for me. 

 

Edited February 14, 2018 by NM Golf