Keeping Golf Balls in a Thermos During Cold Weather?

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

Isn't it like a foot per 10 degrees under 70° F?

Sounds about right.

[Groucho Valentine]

I actually use women's balls in cold weather. Like sub 50 degrees. Lady Precept. I think bridgestone makes them now. Seems like i get more out of them than i do a mens ball. Ive tried the hand warmer thing too. Not too sure if it does any good or not. 

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

I actually use women's balls in cold weather. Like sub 50 degrees. Lady Precept. I think bridgestone makes them now. Seems like i get more out of them than i do a mens ball. Ive tried the hand warmer thing too. Not too sure if it does any good or not. 

Precept is Bridgestone.

Though that’s common it’s not advised by Titleist.

https://www.titleist.com/teamtitleist/b/tourblog/archive/2016/01/19/titleist-golf-ball-r-amp-d-on-temperature-and-golf-ball-performance

[Patch]

I am thinking air/ground temps would have more impact on ball flight than the temprature of the ball itself. 

Colder air is denser, creating more drag. Colder/ frozen ground may create be more roll. 

We golfers' wear more clothes, and are less flexible in our swings. Less yardage there. 

I left my clubs in the garage for a few cold days. Played on a cold day, and since the grips were cold, ball impacts were more noticeable. This even though the balls were room temp. 

Edited March 9, 2018 by Patch

[curlydastooge]

     Back to my "original" question. Whether or not it is an effective method of achieving more distance on relatively cold days, would the use of a thermos bottle without any warm water in it during a stipulated round be within the "Rules of Golf"?  

     To be clear, the warm water would be dumped out before the round. I'm only thinking about trying to retain the heat that is already in the balls during the round. I have a thermos bottle (the gray one with the silver cap, probably can't say the name without getting in trouble for advertising) that retains heat very well for a long time. I can put 6 golf balls in the thermos and they will stay warm for the whole round. As I sometimes tend to be a bit wild with my drives, I occasionally lose a ball or two during a round. Just want to know if I can "legally" use the thermos to insulate the balls from the cold air, thereby keeping them warm. It seems to me that this would be the same as using an insulated bag or an insulated coffee mug to achieve the same purpose. 

 

[onthehunt526]

27 minutes ago, curlydastooge said:

     Back to my "original" question. Whether or not it is an effective method of achieving more distance on relatively cold days, would the use of a thermos bottle without any warm water in it during a stipulated round be within the "Rules of Golf"?  

     To be clear, the warm water would be dumped out before the round. I'm only thinking about trying to retain the heat that is already in the balls during the round. I have a thermos bottle (the gray one with the silver cap, probably can't say the name without getting in trouble for advertising) that retains heat very well for a long time. I can put 6 golf balls in the thermos and they will stay warm for the whole round. As I sometimes tend to be a bit wild with my drives, I occasionally lose a ball or two during a round. Just want to know if I can "legally" use the thermos to insulate the balls from the cold air, thereby keeping them warm. It seems to me that this would be the same as using an insulated bag or an insulated coffee mug to achieve the same purpose. 

 

Yes you can... as long as you get rid of the warm/hot water. I thought we answered this already.

Edited March 9, 2018 by onthehunt526

[Moxley]

I think this is overkill, are you sure they fit in and out of your thermos? and are you not going to have to take that flask out of your bag and empty a ball out each time at which point your playing partners are going to become suspicious, even if you are inside the rules. 

If it's cold enough for warm balls to matter, than it's probably also wet, so extra towels can't go amiss here. Just keep your warmed balls snug inside a hand towel (also warmed if you like) and they'll stay plenty warm without needing to use devices, and you also have a spare towel which could come in use later in your round. 

[Lihu]

On 3/9/2018 at 12:16 PM, Patch said:

If the ambient temperature is so low, that it changes the charactoristics of the ball, you are most likely playing with 20 layers of clothing , or already dead from exposure 

It’s not that cold in the afternoons in So.Cal, but when I do play in the mornings I just keep swinging to stay warm and walk. If it’s below 50F, I play in the afternoon. It was cold for a couple weeks, but not under 55F during the day.

I don’t really lose too much distance at 50F anyway that would affect my score much.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Lihu

[Jay Provolone]

I watched Dean Snell's YouTube video on this topic the other day (I've been ordering Snell balls for awhile, so I get the emails).  Anyway, he stressed not leaving them in your bag, or in your garage, but rather store the balls indoors, because the optimum ball temp is 70-90 F.  If you do that, it takes a long time for them to get cold.  To the contrary, if you keep them in a 40 degree trunk or a cold garage, they will never warm up enough during the round. I'm gonna do both, keep inside then store in a large 'Yeti' (Wal-Mart knockoff) water bottle that has also been inside.  Not to 'warm' them, but to slow down the rate at which they get cold. 

[PA Marky]

I've read somewhere that you could lose 2 yards per every 10*F of temperature change.  So if you carry a driver 230 yds at 90*F, at 40*F you could lose up to 10 yds on your drive (220 yds carry), which makes sense and is logical.  This also doesn't take into account the multiple layers of clothing you're wearing that will most likely restrict your swing and reduce club head swing.... so I'd add 50% to 100% of that loss to the temperature effect = 15-20 yards shorter at 40*F.

[fredf]

This ball warming is an entirely fresh debate in 2019 because there were notable changes to the Rule (now 4.2a(2)) and there is also no interpretation/explanation of the change.  However, a plain reading of the current rule suggests any prior year understanding/interpretation may well be wrong - that playing any ball now that has been deliberately warmed (regardless of when), such that the playing characteristics have been altered, is a breach of the Rule.  And the penalty now has stepped up to DQ (previously 2SP first offence).

[iacas]

10 minutes ago, fredf said:

However, a plain reading of the current rule suggests … that playing any ball now that has been deliberately warmed (regardless of when), such that the playing characteristics have been altered, is a breach of the Rule.

This.

[bones75]

- self deleted after reading the whole thread -

Edited November 9, 2019 by bones75

[curlydastooge]

Hello again,

Just received this from the USGA.  Thought it might clarify the situation.

"Under the Rules of Golf, players are permitted to warm/heat golf balls prior to the round.  Player are not permitted to actively warm/heat golf balls during the round.

While a player is permitted to insulate a golf ball that was warmed/heated prior to the round, we evaluated the Hot Biscuits device many years ago and determined that its use would breach the Rules of Golf because even after unplugging the device, it continued to actively warm/heat the ball once the round started (obviously, there would be a point where the heat source would cool down completely and no longer actively warm/heat, but that’s not a determination that can be made on the course and it would vary depending on conditions).  I believe a subsequent design of the product may exist where the golf balls are removed from the heating source and kept in a container.

The same principles applied to the Hot Biscuits device would apply to any other unit that retains artificial heat which can actively warm/heat the golf ball, including an artificially heated thermos or insulated cup.  Only assistance in retaining the heat of the golf ball, through an insulating device, is permitted.

Thanks for your inquiry.

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by iacas
removed name, since they also tell you not to post the email reply at all

[curlydastooge]

With all due respect, nobody told me not to post the email reply.  If you want to edit my post, that's your prerogative, I guess. I was merely attempting to clarify the situation and I thought that folks might appreciate having an opinion from a Director of the USGA Equipment Rules and Conformance Department instead of just my say so.  Have a nice day.

 

[iacas]

18 minutes ago, curlydastooge said:

With all due respect, nobody told me not to post the email reply.  If you want to edit my post, that's your prerogative, I guess. I was merely attempting to clarify the situation and I thought that folks might appreciate having an opinion from a Director of the USGA Equipment Rules and Conformance Department instead of just my say so.  Have a nice day.

When you have to start something "with all due respect," that usually means you're about to be rude.

Look, the USGA, when you email them a rules question, almost always includes the boilerplate bit about how the response is not intended to be published, blah blah blah.

All I took out was the guy's name at the end, because that's irrelevant.

But hey, this is the only thing you've talked about here on this site in the past two years, so… clearly you're pretty heavily invested in this.

[mellison24]

Is there a bifurcation issue here? I'm sure I read recently (possibly in Golf Konthly or Today's Golfer) that Pro players must play the same ball all round, while amateurs are allowed to change balls every hole.

How would this 'changing warm balls' idea sit in competitions where amateurs and pros play together (like the sorely missed Masters)?

Or have I misunderstood something?

[DaveP043]

33 minutes ago, mellison24 said:

Is there a bifurcation issue here? I'm sure I read recently (possibly in Golf Konthly or Today's Golfer) that Pro players must play the same ball all round, while amateurs are allowed to change balls every hole.

How would this 'changing warm balls' idea sit in competitions where amateurs and pros play together (like the sorely missed Masters)?

Or have I misunderstood something?

I think you've misunderstood.  Top level competitions are often played under the One Ball Rule (Model Local Rule G4 under Committee Procedures if you want to look it up).  This is a local rule that requires a player to use  " the same brand and model as found in a single entry on the current List of Conforming Balls."  These guys can change balls between holes, or at other times permitted under the rules, but they cannot change to a different model.  A guy cannot use a ProV1 on the first hole, and a Calloway on the second hole.  He can't even use a ProV1x.  And the amateurs at the Masters are subject to the exact same rules as the professionals, including the One Ball Rule if its in effect.

The use of a local rule isn't really bifurcation, your local club could apply the One Ball Rule to your next Member-Guest if it chose to.  Its just really rare outside of high-level competitions.