USGA/R&A Finalize 2019 Rules of Golf

[Zeph]

Ah, I forgot this was the new rules thread.

 

The old explanation was found in a decision. Decisions book will change to Guide book, but I assume the format will be the same. Some decisions will be removed due to the new rules and some will be integrated into the new rules, but there will always be a need for them. A clarification on this subject might be found in the revised guide book/decisions. The guide book won't be available until September 2018 according to the official documents.

 

Quote

The Official Guide to the Rules of Golf: This “guidebook” replaces the Decisions book, and will contain information to support committees and officials. It includes interpretations on the Rules, Committee procedures (available model local rules and information on establishing the terms of the competition), and the Modified Rules of Golf for Players with Disabilities. It is a “long-form” resource document intended as a supplementary publication. It will be available as a pdf around September 2018 and will be available in print before the end of 2018.

 

I see there will also be modified rules for players with disabilities. Maybe that one will allow players to drop from knee height or higher.

[Braivo]

On 3/14/2018 at 3:59 AM, deekay said:

How would the lost ball/OB rule apply in the case of a ball flying over a green which is at the boundary of the course, and then being lost/OB on the far side of the green.

The penalty drop would then be closer to the hole? Or would you have no other choice but to replay the shot?

 

This one intrigues me because I see it happen quite often at the tight muni courses. 

Perhaps there is an interpretation that would allow you to essentially drop in front of the green in the fairway at an distance equal to that from the green to the back of the green OB. 

For example, if you go OB 15 yards over the green, your "pie" shaped area for dropping extends straight back to anywhere along the hole that is no closer. Or imagine a protractor drawing a circle around the green at the distance you went OB, where that line intersects the fairways is where your drop could take place?

[Rulesman]

On 3/14/2018 at 7:59 AM, deekay said:

How would the lost ball/OB rule apply in the case of a ball flying over a green which is at the boundary of the course, and then being lost/OB on the far side of the green.

The penalty drop would then be closer to the hole? Or would you have no other choice but to replay the shot?

 

Try this

[cutchemist42]

Just now, Rulesman said:

Try this

Yeah I think thats it. You also meant to draw into fairway for the 2 club lengths?

[DaveP043]

10 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

Try this

I believe the lower limit of the drop area should extend directly away from the hole, so that the drop area gets wider as you go further from the hole.  But I can see how you might draw that arc for quite a long ways, as much as 170 degrees, to find the nearest spot at the edge of the fairway, which would allow a huge potential drop area to choose from.

[Zeph]

What about this?

 

 

[iacas]

47 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

The wedge shape should get larger, not smaller, @Rulesman.

@Zeph, I'm not sure what you're illustrating.

[Rulesman]

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

The wedge shape should get larger, not smaller, @Rulesman.

 

Oops

 

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Rulesman said:

Oops

 

Yeah, that's what I think. Thing is if it's OB directly over the back of the green, you could have a HUGE area in which to drop.

And I wonder if the fringe counts, because if the pin is in the back, or on the right-hand side and you go OB right, there are times you could be dropping onto the fringe or greenside rough and not be closer to the hole.

I still don't know what you get to do if your distance doesn't include any fairway on that hole. What then? You don't get to use the Local Rule, or you only get to use the Local Rule if you can drop within two clublengths near that point where it is lost/OB?

[Rulesman]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yeah, that's what I think. Thing is if it's OB directly over the back of the green, you could have a HUGE area in which to drop.

And I wonder if the fringe counts, because if the pin is in the back, or on the right-hand side and you go OB right, there are times you could be dropping onto the fringe or greenside rough and not be closer to the hole.

The fringe is in the General Area

Edited March 16, 2018 by Rulesman

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

The fringe is in the General Area

Of course, but that doesn't answer the question.

I think the answer is that the fringe is "fairway" too. That's how it's played for embedded balls, how it's played for "LCP in your own fairway," and so on.

And if the ball is lost over the back of the green, you could have almost 170°+ in which to drop, as was mentioned. (This is separate from the fringe thing.)

[Rulesman]

10 hours ago, iacas said:

Of course, but that doesn't answer the question.

I think the answer is that the fringe is "fairway" too.

Oh, I see what you are getting at.

It is made clear though in the LR

"For purposes of this Local Rule, “fairway” means any area of grass in the general area that is cut to fairway height or less."

Edited March 17, 2018 by Rulesman

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Rulesman said:

Oh, I see what you are getting at.

It is made clear though in the LR

"For purposes of this Local Rule, “fairway” means any area of grass in the general area that is cut to fairway height or less."

Right, so the fringe counts. As it has.

Okay.

It's still odd to me that they don't define "fairway." We have a definition of "animal" but not for "fairway."

[Rulesman]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

It's still odd to me that they don't define "fairway." We have a definition of "animal" but not for "fairway."

I 'sort of' agree but other than saying - "Fairway means any area of grass in the general area, excluding the fringe, that is cut to fairway height or less", how would you define it?

Would there need to be a definition of 'fringe'? Would 'green to tee' walkways be included?

Edited March 17, 2018 by Rulesman

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Rulesman said:

I 'sort of' agree but other than saying - "Fairway means any area of grass in the general area, excluding the fringe, that is cut to fairway height or less", how would you define it?

Would there need to be a definition of 'fringe'? Would 'green to tee' walkways be included?

I think they'd just call all that stuff fairway. Or not worry about it because it's "fairway height or lower".

But it still seems odd to me that they have defined "animal" but not "fairway." They've defined putting green, after all, so perhaps a definition like that.

[deekay]

I think the lost ball/OB local rule is going to be a nightmare.

Say for example a golf tries to play the ball over a dogleg left, and ends up pulling it into the trees/bush of the dogleg itself. Now he has to extend an imaginary line from the pin (which he may not be able to see) through the estimated position of the ball, and back towards the tee.

Then he has to extend a 2nd imaginary line from the pin (which he still cannot see) through the bush/trees of the dogleg, to intersect the edge of the fairway at a point a little further from the pin than the ball. (The intersection on the pin side of the corner is no good as it would surely be much closer to the hole.)

Given that this rule is actually written for the golfer who will need to apply it often (non-elite), can you imagine just how long all of this is going to take (perhaps multiple times per round) while the player plods around in the rough to try to establish the one line, then walks (in some cases) halfway across the fairway to establish the other line, and then ponders exactly where to drop the ball?

If he drops on the fairway he may still be blocked by the dogleg, while if he drops from the rough he might be able to play through a gap, but from a poor lie.

Should the law not be simplified to just say "Drop the ball within 2 club lengths of the closest edge of the fairway in play, which is not closer to the hole."

 

P.S. I don't understand the graphics posted above with regard to my original question. As I read it, the rule calls for both lines which define the drop area to originate at the hole?

[Rulesman]

3 hours ago, deekay said:

P.S. I don't understand the graphics posted above with regard to my original question. As I read it, the rule calls for both lines which define the drop area to originate at the hole?

The blue lines indicate the extent of the drop area. 

The lower line extends 'invisibly' from the hole.

The upper line goes 'invisibly' from the hole to the OOB. It then runs along the OOB as it has to be on the course.

The 'invisible' parts of the lines are irrelevant.

3 hours ago, deekay said:

then walks (in some cases) halfway across the fairway to establish the other line,

 

Why would he walk half way across?

How do you determine who is 'away' when the other player is on the far side of the fairway of a dogleg?

[iacas]

I don't think it's going to be as difficult as you're saying, @deekay. And why are they making the first line - the one away from the flagstick toward the tee? They're just dropping somewhere at the distance away in the truncated cone. Once you estimate where the ball was lost, one measurement - distance from the hole - is all that matters, really.