Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
IGNORED

How Many Mulligans Would You Need To Win The US Open?


Note: This thread is 2728 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted

I think you guys are over thinking it.You can just accept a few bogeys if its pretty impossible to par because you will make up for it by making more birdies with your mulligans.You didn't say you had to par or better every hole.


Posted
On 6/29/2018 at 5:40 PM, The Recreational Golfer said:

Look. On some of the hole at this year's Open you had to carry 260-270 just to reach the fairway. No amount of mulligans would make up for my not being able to do that.

Which holes?  I don't see one that requires that type of carry.

Woods: Ping G15 10.5* Draw Driver;   Ping G Series 14.5* 3 Wood;  Callaway 2019 Apex 19* 3 Hybrid

Irons: Mizuno MP-33 4-PW

Wedges: Ping Glide 1.0 52* SS, Glide Stealth 2.0 56* ES, Hogan 60* SW

Edel E-1 Putter

 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

After a carefull reevaluation, I wish this (∞) was enough.

In My Bag:
A whole bunch of Tour Edge golf stuff...... :beer:

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
On 7/2/2018 at 12:09 PM, amished said:

Which holes?  I don't see one that requires that type of carry.

The U.S. Open, to be clear. I don't remember which ones, but I remember saying Good Grief! to myself a few times when they showed the flyover view of the hole.


  • Administrator
Posted
26 minutes ago, The Recreational Golfer said:

The U.S. Open, to be clear. I don't remember which ones, but I remember saying Good Grief! to myself a few times when they showed the flyover view of the hole.

I think he knew the U.S. Open. He was asking which holes required a carry just to reach the fairway.

There may be one or two or three, but it's not like there are an abundance.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
2 hours ago, The Recreational Golfer said:

The U.S. Open, to be clear. I don't remember which ones, but I remember saying Good Grief! to myself a few times when they showed the flyover view of the hole.

I was asking which holes.  There are definitely some long par 3s depending on tee position where you might not get to the green even with a driver depending on length, but those are the holes you'd have to chip/putt with your mulligans to par.

There were some that looked to be close to 200 yards to carry, but I would say most people here could pull that off once in a while with their mullies.

Woods: Ping G15 10.5* Draw Driver;   Ping G Series 14.5* 3 Wood;  Callaway 2019 Apex 19* 3 Hybrid

Irons: Mizuno MP-33 4-PW

Wedges: Ping Glide 1.0 52* SS, Glide Stealth 2.0 56* ES, Hogan 60* SW

Edel E-1 Putter

 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I think most average golfers could win with unlimited mulligans.  Most people underestimate how (relatively) easy and non-tiring it would be to sink putts of any reasonable length.

- John

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Realistically, I doubt one mulligan per hole would be adequate, so I'd say 2 per for an even 36.

Would be fun to try - my guess is 2 per hole I could shoot roughly around par.


Posted

If I was given 6 months, and unlimited do-overs, I think I could cobble four decent rounds together on a US Open layout.  I would have to play each hole over and over until I got par or better...and that could take a while.  

In der bag:
Cleveland Hi-Bore driver, Maltby 5 wood, Maltby hybrid, Maltby irons and wedges (23 to 50) Vokey 59/07, Cleveland Niblick (LH-42), and a Maltby mallet putter.                                                                                                                                                 "When the going gets tough...it's tough to get going."

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
On 7/4/2018 at 7:58 PM, Hardspoon said:

I think most average golfers could win with unlimited mulligans.  Most people underestimate how (relatively) easy and non-tiring it would be to sink putts of any reasonable length.

 

7 hours ago, c. lassiter said:

Realistically, I doubt one mulligan per hole would be adequate, so I'd say 2 per for an even 36.

Would be fun to try - my guess is 2 per hole I could shoot roughly around par.

You might be right. The average golfer might be able to do it? 14 handicap isn’t a slouch.

I didn’t know the forced carries were that long though? 260 yards seems really long considering the average pga carry is 274?

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
39 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I didn’t know the forced carries were that long though? 260 yards seems really long considering the average pga carry is 274?

I know it's been asked, but can someone say which of the 18 holes requires more than 200 yards of forced carry? I don't see any. Perhaps I'm not seeing from which tee they were playing some of the holes.

Jon

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
34 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

I know it's been asked, but can someone say which of the 18 holes requires more than 200 yards of forced carry? I don't see any. Perhaps I'm not seeing from which tee they were playing some of the holes.

There’s a few holes where if you wanted to make the fairway, but I agree that I didn’t see any where if you didn’t make it that it’s lost. Anyone not able to carry 260 some of the time would definitely need to lay up to a closer tee box then depend upon his 3W to go deep on the 2nd shot with lots of mulligans taken assuming if they were just not happy with that shot. That leaves one or two possible bogies on the 500+ yard par 4s?

  • Upvote 1

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
33 minutes ago, Lihu said:

There’s a few holes where if you wanted to make the fairway, but I agree that I didn’t see any where if you didn’t make it that it’s lost. Anyone not able to carry 260 some of the time would definitely need to lay up to a closer tee box then depend upon his 3W to go deep on the 2nd shot with lots of mulligans taken assuming if they were just not happy with that shot. That leaves one or two possible bogies on the 500+ yard par 4s?

I agree.

I know this topic isn't about players like me, but it's a given that there would be a lot of driver-fairway par 4's. The strategy would be to keep hitting drives until I get that 1-in-10 230 yarder on the fairway. Then, keep hitting 5 wood until I hit that 1-in-10 200 yarder. Of course, if the fairways play the way they do on TV, maybe I'm getting an extra 10 or 20 from those clubs.

Anyway, if I could accomplish those two things, I'd have to keep dropping approach shots until I got one close enough to feel like a 1-putt would be possible within a few tries.

As intimidating as the distances are for a short hitter, it was watching those pros having trouble holding the greens and even putting off the greens that makes me question how likely this would be - even with unlimited mulligans. I believe there was mention of a time limit....:whistle:

Jon

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

I agree.

I know this topic isn't about players like me, but it's a given that there would be a lot of driver-fairway par 4's. The strategy would be to keep hitting drives until I get that 1-in-10 230 yarder on the fairway. Then, keep hitting 5 wood until I hit that 1-in-10 200 yarder. Of course, if the fairways play the way they do on TV, maybe I'm getting an extra 10 or 20 from those clubs.

Anyway, if I could accomplish those two things, I'd have to keep dropping approach shots until I got one close enough to feel like a 1-putt would be possible within a few tries.

As intimidating as the distances are for a short hitter, it was watching those pros having trouble holding the greens and even putting off the greens that makes me question how likely this would be - even with unlimited mulligans. I believe there was mention of a time limit....:whistle:

Right, but Dave Portnoy’s game is likely better than the average golfer too.

It should be possible for him to shoot under par with lots of Mulligans...

Edited by Lihu

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
10 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

As intimidating as the distances are for a short hitter, it was watching those pros having trouble holding the greens and even putting off the greens that makes me question how likely this would be - even with unlimited mulligans. I believe there was mention of a time limit....:whistle:

I believe on many holes we could roll a ball up to the green instead of having to land on it and stay there, especially at the angles our fairway woods hit the grass.  

  • Like 1

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
2 hours ago, Shindig said:

I believe on many holes we could roll a ball up to the green instead of having to land on it and stay there, especially at the angles our fairway woods hit the grass.  

I'd have to guess that many shots lost for many of us amateurs on these fast courses would be on the greens. I certainly can't drive350 yard greens like the pros, but given enough mulligans on approach shots and lots of putts it should be possible to birdie the par 3s and birdie the easier par 4s.

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 2728 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • Day 1: 2025.12.26 Worked on LH position on grip, trying to keep fingers closer to perpendicular to the club. Feels awkward but change is meant to.
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.