Women's Golf League Tee Times

[maritamm]

I know this is long, but I'd like some input on how other leagues set up their tee times and group players.

I have been golfing with a local women's league for 7 years. It's been so much fun, until last year. The first 5 years were great, lots of fun. We were able make our own tee times and who we played with. But last year, a new club house manager took over running the league from the course pro. The pro just got too busy to handle the league. The new manager decided to mix things up and decided she would set up tee times and would group us with new players every week, not with friends. She claims that there are players who want to meet and play with new golfers. But, the reality is that most of the players are swapping tee times so they can play with friends. I don't think she is aware of this!

Recently she's been freaking out about cancellations. If you call her to cancel, she shames you! People are now afraid to call her to cancel! She screamed at a friend in the club house full of other players that she was tired of  all the cancellations. In her last 2 emails with the weeks tee times, she went on and on about the cancellations, and then basically encouraged anyone who isn't happy with the way the league is being run, we should leave!

This is causing a lot of tension in the league. Some people have left because of her actions.

So, 2 questions....

What is the norm for setting tee times and grouping players?

Is this woman nuts?!

 

[billchao]

1 hour ago, maritamm said:

What is the norm for setting tee times and grouping players?

Is this woman nuts?!

I can't answer the first question, but to the second one... customer service just isn't everybody's forte.

If it's causing an issue with the league, is there someone you can complain to about this woman or is she in charge of the course? 

[maritamm]

Thanks for the reply!

I've been trying to find an email for the owner. The course has been run by one family for 4 generations. I'm not sure I want to send a complaint to the "contact us" link on their website. Not sure who would actually see it. I've composed a letter to the club house manager, but I haven't sent it yet. I'm a little afraid of her! Maybe I need to snail mail it to the owner.

I've played with 5 other friends for years. They are as annoyed as I am with this woman!

[scotth]

I would go and talk to the club pro about the situation.  Most likely they have no idea what is happening and could hopefully put in a quiet word with the lady.

The league I have played in doesn't really have tee times set per group.  It starts at 5:00 and sometimes it seems teams go off when they are all there.  First team with all 4 players goes then next etc.

Sure it is way more informal than other leagues but that's how they do it here.

[billchao]

3 minutes ago, maritamm said:

Thanks for the reply!

I've been trying to find an email for the owner. The course has been run by one family for 4 generations. I'm not sure I want to send a complaint to the "contact us" link on their website. Not sure who would actually see it. I've composed a letter to the club house manager, but I haven't sent it yet. I'm a little afraid of her! Maybe I need to snail mail it to the owner.

I've played with 5 other friends for years. They are as annoyed as I am with this woman!

I had a feeling when you said "club house manager" that she was basically in charge. Maybe you can get together with some of the other ladies and have a discussion with her; let her know your concerns regarding some of her policies and actions?

[DaveP043]

27 minutes ago, billchao said:

I had a feeling when you said "club house manager" that she was basically in charge. Maybe you can get together with some of the other ladies and have a discussion with her; let her know your concerns regarding some of her policies and actions?

First, welcome to TST, @maritamm

I'm with @billchao, I think a discussion with the manager and a few of the concerned league members would be a good starting point.  She certainly doesn't like the feelings of frustration she's been going through over the cancellations, and probably doesn't realize that she may be a factor in causing them with the way she's running the scheduling.  If you can talk things over, you might come to a better understanding of one another.

Separately, I find that I enjoy playing with "other" people.  I play with the same group of friends most weekends, so I'm very open to playing with different members on our Tuesday evening Men's league.  

[Buckeyebowman]

Any league I've played in had a league "secretary", who took care of the organization of the league. Their reward was that they played for free.

The last league I was in was for 2 man teams. We'd be paired against another 2 man team, and a tee time was assigned, but it wasn't taken very seriously. Basically we had a "block" of time available to the league.

Due to work, and other obligations, some guys would show up late, some would show up early. If your team and the opposing team were both present, off you'd go!

I have never played in a league where the course had much to say about who teed off when, or with whom. They basically just set aside a block of time to accommodate the league. And most courses are happy to do this since it is guaranteed income every week! 

I think you need to rethink your league from the ground up. Maybe call a meeting and see if there is someone who is capable of being league secretary. That's kind of the key. If you can't, then you are the mercy of this woman, who does not belong to your league, running it!

[sofingaw]

A couple of ideas I have:

1) Though I do not and have never yet played in a golf league, I am a veteran of several bowling leagues, and if they are set up in anything like the same way, then you may/should have a league ‘secretary’ who is nominally ‘in charge’ of the league, posts scores, gives updates to members, and works out any scheduling issues that arise, as well as holds votes on league issues as they arise. Additionally, they generally interface with the bowling center (golf course) as necessary. If any complaints are to be delivered, the best course of action is for a league ‘official’ to make the case on behalf of the league members in a professional manner. Hopefully your league has one. If not, you could create the position now, to help with this current issue, and to help avoid future issues. 

2) Perhaps create a separate division within the league for random groups or new players, and let those who have a ‘standard’ group play together in the other division. 

3) Set a time deadline for the ‘set groupings/choice groupings’ in the league, and have all players who miss the arrival time grouped randomly. Say the league starts at 5:00, if you don’t make it by 6:00, you go as you arrive, for instance. 

These are just some ideas. Feel free to use, combine, alter or discard these as you need.

good luck!

Edited June 26, 2018 by sofingaw

[maritamm]

Thanks for the quick responses!

This is from the email that the club house manager sent out yesterday with today's tee times. She then spent most of yesterday afternoon and this morning changing tee times, because she put people who work in 4:46, 4:54 and 5:03 tee times that they can't make. She's done it numerous times despite these players telling her repeatedly they can't be there that early.

This part of the email ticked off a lot of people! Your thoughts?!

I'd like to mention to everyone that if this is not what you expected the league to be: i.e.; meeting new people, playing with different ladies each week, getting the earliest/latest tee times every week, then I apologize for not getting across the overall goal with the Ladies league! I have mentioned numerous times that this league is being handled differently than it has in previous years, and we certainly understand that leagues aren’t for everyone, so if you’ve come to the conclusion that you would rather not participate any longer with this group, please let me know! It is important that you all enjoy yourselves, and while we do our best to make that happen, unfortunately it doesn’t appear to be enjoyable for all players, so you are more than welcome to back out! Let me know, and I will be able to refund your league dues!

If you will in fact continue with this league, please know that I will be making tee times based on those players that CAN play each week, and I will be MIXING the groups up! The tee times and scoring methods will continue to remain the same, as well as the cancellation requirements!

Several players responded to her comments, suggesting solutions and that we should have a meeting to discuss the issues. She did not reply to any those emails publicly. She only responded to all the people who needed to change their tee times. Ugh!

I had dinner with 2 of my friends tonight and I shared your advice with them. We decided that we will contact the pro and see if she's aware of these issues. She gives lessons at the driving range down the road from the golf club, so she may not know what's going on.

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep ya'll posted!

1 minute ago, sofingaw said:

2) Perhaps create a separate division within the league for random groups or new players, and let those who have a ‘standard’ group play together in the other division. 

I like that idea! It would be nice to be paired with a friend. Thanks!

[maritamm]

On 6/25/2018 at 3:04 PM, billchao said:

I had a feeling when you said "club house manager" that she was basically in charge. Maybe you can get together with some of the other ladies and have a discussion with her; let her know your concerns regarding some of her policies and actions?

We've asked for a meeting, via email, but so far she hasn't replied. I seriously doubt she'll agree to a meeting, because she knows that a lot of the players are angry about the way she's running things. Oddly, there is a men's league on the same day that we play. She does not have any say in how they run their league. They make their own tee times like we used to..

14 hours ago, sofingaw said:

A couple of ideas I have:

1) Though I do not and have never yet played in a golf league, I am a veteran of several bowling leagues, and if they are set up in anything like the same way, then you may/should have a league ‘secretary’ who is nominally ‘in charge’ of the league, posts scores, gives updates to members, and works out any scheduling issues that arise, as well as holds votes on league issues as they arise. Additionally, they generally interface with the bowling center (golf course) as necessary. If any complaints are to be delivered, the best course of action is for a league ‘official’ to make the case on behalf of the league members in a professional manner. Hopefully your league has one. If not, you could create the position now, to help with this current issue, and to help avoid future issues. 

2) Perhaps create a separate division within the league for random groups or new players, and let those who have a ‘standard’ group play together in the other division. 

3) Set a time deadline for the ‘set groupings/choice groupings’ in the league, and have all players who miss the arrival time grouped randomly. Say the league starts at 5:00, if you don’t make it by 6:00, you go as you arrive, for instance. 

These are just some ideas. Feel free to use, combine, alter or discard these as you need.

good luck!

The clubhouse manager is essentially the league official here. We're not affiliated with any outside group.

BTW, how do you bowl?! I live in New Hampshire and I play in a candle pin league. Smaller ball and slender pins. It's a lot harder than it looks! No one has EVER bowled a perfect game!

[phillyk]

Sorry you have to deal with such a bad manager. 

I run the ladies league at my course.  We set a meeting before the season starts to come up with a block of times for the 18 holers to play and the 9 holers.  We ask that the ladies call in to say if they are playing no less than a day out.  This way, I can send an email out with the pairings and tee times for the following day.  And really, I don't care who wants to play with whom, because like the name suggests, it's their league.  They can even call in the day of and completely switch it up on me.  It may be a little annoying but it's not like my life is ruined from it.  But play with whomever when it comes time, it's cool.  So long as you play on pace and have fun!  I usually mix it up but if someone wants to play with specific people, that's what I'll do.

22 minutes ago, maritamm said:

Oddly, there is a men's league on the same day that we play. She does not have any say in how they run their league. They make their own tee times like we used to..

Do it and run it on your own.  "Dues" or "skins" or whatever are paid within your group, you call to make tee times like a standard group, but pair up on your own.  The course just gets the greens fees and whatever.  It can be complicated for that one or two ladies that have to manage the group, but it can make things a lot easier.  They'd just have to have a contact list that's updated regularly.

[maritamm]

2 hours ago, phillyk said:

  We ask that the ladies call in to say if they are playing no less than a day out.  This way, I can send an email out with the pairings and tee times for the following day.

It may be a little annoying but it's not like my life is ruined from it.

This woman insists that we let her know the Thursday before if AREN'T going to play. Unfortunately, she doesn't send the tee times out until Sunday, the day before we play. Some people don't see the email until they get to work on Monday morning. In the last few weeks, she has been assigning 4:46 tee time to players who work until 5:00, despite those players telling her, repeatedly they can't play that early. So, players start responding to the tee time email asking to be given a later tee time. Yesterday, there were 12 emails from people trying to change times. It's just crazy.

Unfortunately, this woman has repeatedly freaked out on people who have to cancel, especially the same day. She threw a major fit about it the clubhouse several weeks and one of my friends got the brunt of it. When you call to cancel, she shames you. One lady had a huge business deal pending and had to cancel last minute. The manager shamed her on the phone, and she's not sure she will be coming back to play.

Her behavior is costing the course money! So, today, I called and left a message with the pro who used to run the league. I hope she can help us..

 

[sofingaw]

3 hours ago, maritamm said:

We've asked for a meeting, via email, but so far she hasn't replied. I seriously doubt she'll agree to a meeting, because she knows that a lot of the players are angry about the way she's running things. Oddly, there is a men's league on the same day that we play. She does not have any say in how they run their league. They make their own tee times like we used to..

The clubhouse manager is essentially the league official here. We're not affiliated with any outside group.

BTW, how do you bowl?! I live in New Hampshire and I play in a candle pin league. Smaller ball and slender pins. It's a lot harder than it looks! No one has EVER bowled a perfect game!

I bowl tenpin, though haven’t been in a league the past few years. Average about 180-190 (bowling was my first love/obsession!). I did roll a 692 series in a charity tournament last month including a 269 game. Rolled a 279 in practice the same month. Funny, some of my best ever bowling has been done after a decently long layoff!

I’ve done candlepin before as well a couple of times. VERY fun, and as you say, VERY difficult! 

Again, best of luck with your golf league situation. 

[Buckeyebowman]

Here's a couple of suggestions. First, talk with the league secretary of the men's league that has minimal involvement with course management/ownership other than the block of times available to them. Find out what is involved with being a league secretary, and if there is anyone in your group willing to take it on! It's a lot of work, which is why our secretaries played for free!

I don't intend this as a criticism, but in my experience most women just don't "dig deep" into golf, like a lot of guys do. Just the other day I had to explain to a woman how the handicap numbers on holes work, and how they are applied to your score. She's been playing for 20 years!

My second suggestion is, if you can find someone who can be a league secretary, and the woman at your present course still gives you static, run away screaming and find a new place to play!

Sounds like she is a control freak, and it will be "her way or the highway"!

[maritamm]

We are a very casual league and most of us don't use handicaps, so I guess we don't "dig deep"! Ha ha!

I did call 3 other golf courses in the area to see how they handle their leagues, specifically setting tee times and who plays with who. Since it's mid-season, there are no openings for us at 2 of the clubs. One club didn't have anything to do with setting up tee times or groups. The players in the league handle that. The other club uses software to make tee times and groups, so friends generally didn't get to play together. But, they're probably not the right fit for us anyway, because they require handicaps to participate in the league. Then, I spoke with a gentleman from a third club. I mentioned that a small group of my friends were unhappy about the league we were in and thinking of finding somewhere else to play, he got very excited! They have a Tuesday morning ladies league, but not an evening one. He said if we could gather 12 players, we could start our own league at his course! He even offered to let us try the course for free to see if we liked the place! We'll see if that works out!

We are still trying to see if we can meet with the clubhouse manager to see if we can work things out. She has not responded to our requests for the meeting. I seriously doubt she's going to set up a meeting. So, some of us are considering going to the general manager and asking him if he approves of her encouraging players to leave if we don't like the way she's doing things. He'll be losing money! And, money talks!

[Buckeyebowman]

You got that right! Which is why most courses court league play, That's why I cannot understand the attitude of this woman you are dealing with!

[maritamm]

I found this Yelp review from last year. Wonder if they've read it?!

This place is the absolute worst place in New Hampshire, buyer beware!!!!! As far as customer service is concerned, the manager is the most rude, insensitive person I have ever dealt with. I will not ever be returning there, nor referring any of my clients to this place ever again. I was completely disgusted today.

[maritamm]

Update: I sent a group email to players in the league asking for their thoughts on the clubhouse manager's rude behavior and the love or leave it email she sent out last week. I've gotten a few responses. One player did not agree with me. But 3 players did agree with me. Add them to my 5 friends in the league and myself, that's 9 who are in agreement with me. So, I'm optimistic!

Unfortunately, someone emailed me privately to tell me that due to a huge outage yesterday, Comcast users may not see all the replies. I am a Comcast user! GRRRR! She sent me a screen shot of her reply to the player who did not agree. But, I understand there may be more I'm missing. I'm hoping that some of my friends will be able to send me copies of the other comments that I've missed. We'll see what happens!