Overrated/Underrated (Golf) Topic

[JxQx]

23 hours ago, iacas said:

Overrated/Underrated #4:  Winning a Major

Overrated. It seems like the fields at the higher purse regular season events are drawing similar strength fields to majors now. Majors are talked about so much it seems like after a player wins a  few times, regular season wins don't matter. It becomes all about majors. I'm kinda surprised to see how many people said underrated. 

[NM Golf]

28 minutes ago, JxQx said:

Overrated. It seems like the fields at the higher purse regular season events are drawing similar strength fields to majors now. Majors are talked about so much it seems like after a player wins a  few times, regular season wins don't matter. It becomes all about majors. I'm kinda surprised to see how many people said underrated. 

The Majors often don't have the same strength of field as some regular tour events. The WGC events often have stronger fields than the Majors. Strength of field is not really what defines a major championship. They are not the hardest events to win, but they are the most prestigious. Look at the best players in the world, they set their schedules up around the major championships. Tiger Woods talked about it for years how he picked his schedule in an effort to be at his best for each major. If the Majors are so overrated then why do all of the best players in the world revolve their schedules around them?

Edited December 12, 2018 by NM Golf

[rehmwa]

Overrated/Underrated #4:  Winning a Major

Overrated - same people, same timeframe, same same same as all the other tournaments of the year.  They matter because we're (and they) are convinced they matter more.  I do like that the courses are purposely dialed in to certain difficulty levels where they can while many courses seem to try to make themselve birdie-fests.  Other tournaments could do that too though.  And yes, I like to watch them more than 'regular' tournaments too, but I'm susceptible to good marketing.

Maybe better in that (other than Augusta), they move about to different courses?

Edited December 12, 2018 by iacas
You don't get to go back and talk about old topics. Once they're gone, they're gone.

[JxQx]

33 minutes ago, NM Golf said:

The Majors often don't have the same strength of field as some regular tour events. The WGC events often have stronger fields than the Majors. Strength of field is not really what defines a major championship. They are not the hardest events to win, but they are the most prestigious. Look at the best players in the world, they set their schedules up around the major championships. Tiger Woods talked about it for years how he picked his schedule in an effort to be at his best for each major. If the Majors are so overrated then why do all of the best players in the world revolve their schedules around them?

Strength of field and difficulty are what gave it the prestige to begin with. People understand they are important therefore they aren't underrated. If majors are underrated why is their discussion on who the GOAT is?

[saevel25]

6 minutes ago, JxQx said:

Strength of field and difficulty are what gave it the prestige to begin with. People understand they are important therefore they aren't underrated. If majors are underrated why is their discussion on who the GOAT is?

They are only important because golfers decided to make them so.

The Master's did not exist before 1934. The British Open (The Open) was not even important to US golfers till the 1960's when Arnie made it important. It offered too little of a payout and cost too much to fly over there. The US Open is probably the most prestigious.

Primarily they are held in high esteem is because Jack made them an emphasis. The 2nd greatest golfer off all time (greatest of his time), decided to make them important. That influenced all future golfers as making them the gold standard.

Majors are a horrible way to measure greatness. It lacks all nuance that the discussion needs.

 

[NM Golf]

25 minutes ago, JxQx said:

Strength of field and difficulty are what gave it the prestige to begin with. People understand they are important therefore they aren't underrated. If majors are underrated why is their discussion on who the GOAT is?

Huh? 

 

14 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

They are only important because golfers decided to make them so.

And.... You make my point. They are important because golfers make them so. Who else would make them important?

 

15 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

The Master's did not exist before 1934. The British Open (The Open) was not even important to US golfers till the 1960's when Arnie made it important. It offered too little of a payout and cost too much to fly over there. 

 

Before the Masters the US Amateur and the British Amateur (Amateur Championship) were considered majors. The Open Championship was very important in the UK prior to Palmer doing anything. I could argue prior to Palmer golf itself wasn't all that important to the masses in the US.

20 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

The US Open is probably the most prestigious.

I think you could get some arguments on this one.

20 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Primarily they are held in high esteem is because Jack made them an emphasis. The 2nd greatest golfer off all time (greatest of his time), decided to make them important. That influenced all future golfers as making them the gold standard.

They were held in high esteem and referred to as Major Championships well before the appearance of Jack Nicklaus.

21 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

 

Majors are a horrible way to measure greatness. It lacks all nuance that the discussion needs.

 

This may be somewhat true, but yet winning one seems to be pretty important when it comes to being asked to be a US Ryder Cup Captain, getting into the World Golf Hall of Fame, etc. Right or Wrong its looked at to determine how successful a player was during his career. 

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, NM Golf said:

And.... You make my point. They are important because golfers make them so. Who else would make them important?

Danny, importance is not what being debated. Something can be incredibly important and still overrated.

[NM Golf]

30 minutes ago, iacas said:

Danny, importance is not what being debated. Something can be incredibly important and still overrated.

My thinking is that if something is important enough for the best players in the world to work their schedules around them, then how can they be that overrated? 

I suppose It's how you look at it. It's overrated as a measure of a player's career and how they are measured against other players. For example there are players held in high regard that never won a major i.e. Matt Kuchar, Steve Stricker, Lee Westwood. I mean I don't think any of those guys would switch careers with Shaun Micheel. 

 

[JxQx]

22 minutes ago, NM Golf said:

My thinking is that if something is important enough for the best players in the world to work their schedules around them, then how can they be that overrated? 

I suppose It's how you look at it. It's overrated as a measure of a player's career and how they are measured against other players. For example there are players held in high regard that never won a major i.e. Matt Kuchar, Steve Stricker, Lee Westwood. I mean I don't think any of those guys would switch careers with Shaun Micheel. 

 

That's pretty much what I said along with strength of fields be a lot higher during some regular season events.

Your options are overrated or underrated, there is no in between. I lean toward the majors being overrated than underrated.

[Pretzel]

On 12/11/2018 at 9:07 AM, iacas said:

Overrated/Underrated #4:  Winning a Major

Overrated. Everybody says that winning a major will change the trajectory of your golf career, but this is only the case if you have a solid career that the major acts as a capstone for.

Not many remember Danny Willett, because besides his recent Masters victory he's only won once on the PGA Tour (sorry Euro Tour guys, but there is a pretty significant difference between the two tours and there's a reason Euro Tour players try to play in PGA Tour events and not vice versa). Lucas Glover won the US Open in 2009, but with only 3 other PGA Tour wins to his name he's forgotten by most. Did you remember Ben Curtis, winner of the 2003 Open Championship? Didn't think so. How about Y.E. Yang who won the PGA in 2009?

Major championships CAN act as a turning point in someone's career, or as a high point that caps off their lifetime achievements, but if you only win one and you haven't done much else you're going to be forgotten the same as the thousands of past professional golfers who only achieved small success even if they made a living off it. A major championship win alone isn't going to provide you with comfortable living for the rest of your life as many make it out to be. The cushy lifetime sponsor deals only go to those who've made a name for themselves beyond a single tournament, not just those who are one and done.

[Beastie]

1 hour ago, Pretzel said:

 (sorry Euro Tour guys, but there is a pretty significant difference between the two tours and there's a reason Euro Tour players try to play in PGA Tour events and not vice versa)

Ok the PGA tour is number one but the standard on the European tour is pretty damn high. 

 

1 hour ago, Pretzel said:

. Did you remember Ben Curtis, winner of the 2003 Open Championship? Didn't think so. How about Y.E. Yang who won the PGA in 2009?

Yes to both, I can guarantee no one would have a clue who they are if they hadn’t won a major

1 hour ago, Pretzel said:

. A major championship win alone isn't going to provide you with comfortable living for the rest of your life as many make it out to be. The cushy lifetime sponsor deals only go to those who've made a name for themselves beyond a single tournament, not just those who are one and done.

$1.9million Dollars in one go (The Open) is a long feckin way to a comfortable retirement.......

 

[iacas]

27 minutes ago, Beastie said:

$1.9million Dollars in one go (The Open) is a long feckin way to a comfortable retirement..  

Probably under $1M just from paying agents, caddies, taxes, travel, and hotel.

And… Webb Simpson won $1.98M by winning the Players, a non-major.

Regardless, again, nobody is saying they're not important. But if people over-state their importance they can be over-rated.

And I think people over-state their importance. People act like one major is worth 20 regular PGA Tour wins or something. IMO, winning 20 events is a better career and indicates that you're a better golfer than winning one major. Ditto with 10. Even 5. So, I voted for "overrated."

To apply your scale, winning even three regular PGA Tour events probably goes a longer way toward a comfortable retirement than winning a major.

[Beastie]

29 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

And I think people over-state their importance. People act like one major is worth 20 regular PGA Tour wins or something. IMO, winning 20 events is a better career and indicates that you're a better golfer than winning one major. Ditto with 10. Even 5. So, I voted for "overrated."

To apply your scale, winning even three regular PGA Tour events probably goes a longer way toward a comfortable retirement than winning a major.

I don’t know about 3 regular tour events = 1 major. Maybe double that perhaps

I mean 3 John Deere’s doesn’t add up to 1 US Open but maybe 

1 John Deere + 1 Bridgestone + 1 Players might.

Edited December 12, 2018 by iacas
removed blank lines

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, Beastie said:

I don’t know about 3 regular tour events = 1 major. Maybe double that perhaps

I mean 3 John Deere’s doesn’t add up to 1 US Open but maybe 

1 John Deere + 1 Bridgestone + 1 Players might.

Point being that if you think it's 10:1, or even 5:1, then I'm voting "overrated."

Get yourself an avatar there @Beastie. Thanks!

[Beastie]

 

Brooks Koepka Questions Exclusion From ESPN 20 Dominant Athletes

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Brooks Koepka Questions Exclusion From ESPN 20 Dominant Athletes - The world number one...

Brooks thinks he’s underrated....poor lad

[Pretzel]

3 hours ago, Beastie said:

 

Brooks Koepka Questions Exclusion From ESPN 20 Dominant Athletes

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Brooks Koepka Questions Exclusion From ESPN 20 Dominant Athletes - The world number one...

Brooks thinks he’s underrated....poor lad

He had 2 victories in 2018. There were 4 golfers last year with 3 wins (Justin Thomas, Dustin Johnson, Bryson DeChambeau, and Bubba Watson) and another 5 golfers with 2 wins to match him.

He won the US Open two years in a row, but he wasn't exactly dominant in the sport. He wasn't even in the top 10 on tour for top 10 finishes, he tied for 15th in that category.

[mvmac]

On 12/11/2018 at 11:07 AM, iacas said:

Overrated/Underrated #4:  Winning a Major

Overrated. It's a big deal but there are many players that have won a major that have had less than stellar careers. Obviously Sergio's career got a bump, it made a good career even better but not in the "great" category IMO. You also have fields that aren't deep in terms of strength of field and some course set-ups that can get so tough at times that the best player isn't actually identified that week. 

[MacDutch]

19 minutes ago, mvmac said:

Overrated. It's a big deal but there are many players that have won a major that have had less than stellar careers. Obviously Sergio's career got a bump, it made a good career even better but not in the "great" category IMO. You also have fields that aren't deep in terms of strength of field and some course set-ups that can get so tough at times that the best player isn't actually identified that week. 

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I'll start a new one:

Overrated/Underrated #5:  European Tour

Huh? Call a rule official. You cant start a new one, while reacting to the current one. Needs to be 12 hours in between.