Conflicting Fittings

[Curt]

I'm in a real dilemma... I've been fitted by two different fitters and got two different irons results... one (Golf Galaxy) put me in Rogue X w Recoil 460 S-flex, and one (Club Champion) put me in Rogue w graphite R-flex... what's going on here?  ....yes, the Champion was more thorough, but the Galaxy fitter seemed very confident in his opinion (well, they both seemed confident).  Is Champion just trying to sell me their more expensive shafts?  Or... like I say, what? 

Could it be that I was different on different days of fitting, like less flexible body one day compared to the next or something?

Should I wait and get a third opinion, or get a third opinion now, or what?  Or let them both know of the conflict and ask for a re-fit? 

I'm scared to commit one way or another, and I've wasted money on clubs due to bad advice before, so I'm a bit gun shy...

Or should I just go with the new higher lofted driver and the hybrids, reg flex, .... and just play my Callaway XR OS irons reg flex steel (stock Speedstep 80) for now and be content, wait a while on the irons, get refit later... and how long to wait?  Thoughts?

[klineka]

I have some questions for you

1. Why did you see two fitters? Were you not confident with the results that the first one provided you?
2. How far apart were the fittings and how was your performance at each fitting? Were you hitting it really well at one fitting and poorly at another? 
3. Which club setup provided you with the best numbers and most confidence?
4. Do you have pictures or screenshots of any of the numbers that you could share here?

[Curt]

1. I saw two fitters because I got burned bigtime by a bad fitter at Golftec a couple years ago and wasted a lot of money chasing inappropriate, stiff heavy shafts... and I sure wish I had gotten a second opinion at that time, so I figured I'd get two this time.  Also, Golf Galaxy was only an irons fitting, and they have less selection of shafts etc.... I dunno... I was just wanting to see how things shook out with two fits mainly to prevent chasing the wrong clubs.

2. The fittings were about two weeks apart and my swing might not have been equivalent in power (speed)... I might have been more tired and less practiced for the Champion fitting.  I wasn't hitting it poorly nor well either one, just normal, but I might have had slower swingspeed at Champion.  We did test the Rogue X with the stiff light Recoils at Champion, and they generated less spin and less launch angle than we got at Galaxy for those clubs, and less consistency than the Rogues, too, at the Champion fitting... so maybe that's a function of different body conditions at the times? 

Another possibility is that the Rogue X in the stiffs is great when I'm in top form, but maybe overall for versatility and looking ahead to aging the reg flex is the more "all inclusive" fit...???

3.  Well, at Champion the numbers were clearly in favor of the regular Rogue with the reg flex shafts.  At Galaxy, I was nailing it with the Rogue X lightweight Recoils, stiff.  That's what I mean: therein lies the problem.  They did, however, have some similarities of diagnosis: graphite is better for me, light is good for me, forgiveness is good for me, and the Callaways beat out the other brands we tried (including the Ping g700 which going in I really I thought was going to be the winner, but it wasn't either place in any shaft combo).  

Another thing to know... other than the g700 which lost out, my second thought was that the Rogue X would be good for me, with it's wide sole and given that I actually LIKE the chunkier heads (more similar to my XR OS) --- but the numbers at Champion anyway did not bear that out.  

Finally, I am not necessarily averse to having one set of each (I know, but that's perhaps not ideal because now I'd have two different sets, feels, etc.) because ultimately I will have two sets: one for California or Arizona in the winter months, and one set up north in Minnesota where I stay the summers...   (finally after 28 years in the business, I'm actually at some leisure during my so-called "summers off" as a professor... retirement, here I come in about two more years).

[klineka]

One thing to consider since you did see two different fitters is the human element of club fitting. Club fitters have tendencies and they all have different experiences as club fitters which help drive their decisions and recommendations, so it's not really surprising that you got two different results from two different fitters on two different days, especially when you acknowledged there might have been some swing speed differences between the two fittings.

It's also possible that differences in launch monitors could have affected the fitting too, if your Club Champion used a Trackman and Golf Galaxy used a FlightScope you could have different results, or even if they were the same launch monitor, differences in how they were configured or calibrated could affect the data which would affect the club recommendations as well.

I wouldn't recommend a 3rd fitting or a refit by either one, I would pick whichever set you liked the most, felt most comfortable with, and provided you the best numbers. Give that set a try for a while, if you like it, then buy another identical set for your second location, if you arent completely comfortable with the first set you buy, buy the other set for your second location and see how they perform.

[billchao]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

Is Champion just trying to sell me their more expensive shafts?

I doubt it. Don't think they really care if you order the club through them or not.

[GOATee]

11 hours ago, Curt said:

Could it be that I was different on different days of fitting, like less flexible body one day compared to the next or something?

Bingo.  Chances are you were fresher, and used a faster tempo one of the days.  The question is which day represents better your usual swing tempo.

For example, if I got fit for an iron and used 80% of my max swing speed one day and 60% another day, I would probably be fit for different shafts.

The question is whether I am usually going to be using 60% or 80% swing speed on average.

Usually I would recommend going for the softer shaft, because sometimes we get tired and swing speed falls, so why play with a shaft that needs you to play at your best all the time.

[Typhoon92]

One quote of yours that stood out was Golftec gave you a stiffer heavier shaft.  Golf Galaxy was looking at a stiffer and heavier shaft than Club Champion.  Golftec could have been project X 6.5 for all I know but Club Champion seems to have chosen a lighter and more flexible shaft maybe.

Another thing...not a fan of getting fit in a retail store.  Our 2 golf galaxy's ...one has Trackman which I know for a fact doesn't read right because there is not a enough room for it.  The other one has 2 GC 2's...I can go from one to the next one in the other booth and get readings at are 20 yards apart.  When I ask...they shrug their shoulders.  No thanks...

id stick with Club Champion.  Might cost more to get fit but go somewhere where their only job is club fitting.

[allenc]

19 hours ago, Curt said:

They did, however, have some similarities of diagnosis: graphite is better for me, light is good for me, forgiveness is good for me, and the Callaways beat out the other brands we tried

I think if you got that much out of your fittings, you did pretty well.  IMO fittings are never going to be that precise, especially for a non expert golfer.  Both clubs probably work fine for you.

I would go back to club champion and see if they will let you test them both one more time, then pick the one you like best for whatever reason, tangible or not.  Maybe try switching back and forth every shot.

[downbylaw11]

well, I would think the numbers would speak for themselves in a fitting. so in that case, which fitting produced better results? 

That all being said, I experienced my first golf fitting a few weeks back for a driver, and I thought the guy was a total knob.  His idea of fitting was basically testing out every driver off the rack until one 'worked'. He basically just decided I was a stiff flex based on swing speed, but thats a pretty old school way of determining flex.  At the end of the day, I ended up with a driver that got my spin rate down to around 2500 with a good launch angle and an overall distance gain of 30 yards so I got what I wanted.  But I paid 130 bucks for the session when in reality I could have gotten the same results if I had just walked into golftown and asked to try out some drivers.  So yeah, I think the guy as a fitter was garbage, and was just a club pro guy who fits, as opposed to people who are dedicated to the art of club fitting.

[Curt]

19 minutes ago, downbylaw11 said:

well, I would think the numbers would speak for themselves in a fitting. so in that case, which fitting produced better results? 

 

That's part of the problem... I got different conclusions, different results... better at Galaxy the RogueX w stiff flex,  better at Champion the Rogue w regular flex (but a different shaft, too).

At Galaxy got lots of long straight hits w good spin numbers, good launch, good descent, good moi, all that,  w RogueX, but at Champion my numbers were not the same with that same club and shaft and we got better numbers with the Rogue.  So, that's what's confusing. 

[Curt]

12 hours ago, allenc said:

I think if you got that much out of your fittings, you did pretty well.  IMO fittings are never going to be that precise, especially for a non expert golfer.  Both clubs probably work fine for you.

I would go back to club champion and see if they will let you test them both one more time, then pick the one you like best for whatever reason, tangible or not.  Maybe try switching back and forth every shot.

True enough, and a good point: either club/shaft combo would be much much better than what I had been playing, and both fitters agreed on some salient points, including some points that I would not have come to on my own without the fittings (Callaways beat the Pings, lightweight graphite shafts -- even if different flex recommendations ).  So, in that sense alone, the fittings were not wasted money.  My pre-fitting instincts were to get the Ping g700 in stock R-flex steel, but those were clearly not the best for me and I would have wasted money in that regard, though even those would be far better than my pre-clubs... plus we really narrowed it down because we took Titleists, TaylorMades, Mizunos, and other Pings out of the running as well, for me.  So, that's a relief right there, getting far narrower focus.

I do like your suggestion to go back to CC and ask for one more irons test, just between the two in question, on a day when I'm fresher like I was at Galaxy.  I'm thinking they'd let me do it... I did purchase a full-bag fitting after all, and I'm sticking with their conclusions for driver, hybrids, wedges, and putter, so I'd hope so...  

[Adam C]

I have to say that those two set ups are actually very similar and I don't think it's surprising at all that you could get these two different recommendations. Fact is that these two set ups are trying to do similar things. The Rogue launches slightly lower than the X, but the stock shaft is designed to launch higher with more spin. The Rogue X launches higher on its own but the upgrade UST shaft provides a lower mid launch comparatively.

So in the end the result is going to be very similar in ball flight. As for the stiffness, it could be that you were swinging faster on one day or it could be that the weighting on the X was allowing you to swing faster and play the stiffer shaft.

People are constantly over worried about two things with equipment I have noticed; shaft flex and finding the perfect club. Shaft flex in most cases has very little impact going from say R to S. And the fact is shafts are not necessarily consistent one shaft to the next.

As far as the right clubs go, everyone is looking for the perfect combination to capture lightning in a bottle but it doesn't exist. Your swing is different day to day, and from the 1st hole to the 18th. So how do you fit for that? You can only get so close.

All that being said, this would be my recommendation for what to do. I would do a mixed set between the two with Rogue X in your 4,5,6 or whatever your longer irons might be, and Rogue in the short irons. This way you get the max forgiveness in the longer clubs and a little more consistency in the shorter ones. As far as the shaft goes, I can't speak for the consistency of the stock Aldila Synergy shaft I am assuming you are referencing, but the UST Recoil I would bet will be more consistent in radial quality (roundness) and from shaft to shaft in the set. Go with R flex because that's probably where your swing will be later in the round.

Even most PGA guys are now mixing sets to take advantage of the technology in each club. Very often will have 3 different sets making up a 3-PW. Hope this helps. Good Luck!

[Curt]

Thanks Adam.  Good points!   Yes, it helps.

Yes, a mixed bag sounds rational...  and that way I'd be able to play both.  Best of both worlds scenario.

[downbylaw11]

On 12/8/2018 at 6:14 PM, Curt said:

That's part of the problem... I got different conclusions, different results... better at Galaxy the RogueX w stiff flex,  better at Champion the Rogue w regular flex (but a different shaft, too).

At Galaxy got lots of long straight hits w good spin numbers, good launch, good descent, good moi, all that,  w RogueX, but at Champion my numbers were not the same with that same club and shaft and we got better numbers with the Rogue.  So, that's what's confusing. 

lol, i was convinced the guy during my fitting turned on the 'doom switch' whenever we would test my current driver.  I carry it 230 to 240 even on mishits, and thats not boasting or anything, thats just how far I hit my driver 95% of the time.  My first swing on the launch monitor was like 185 carry lol and my next 5 or so were not much better.  I don't know if it takes a few swings to calibrate or what, but the fitter was very sure to make me wait so he could put in the system that it was my current club, before he allowed me to swing.  Maybe I was just struggling to adjust to the indoor setting, or if I was so cold from not warming up properly, but by the end of the session with a different driver I was back to carrying 240-250 with 280+ totals.  

 

in your case, I suppose maybe there is a swing inconsistency that was maybe showing crappy results with the club that showed good results before, and the change in head and shaft allowed that inconsistency on that particular day to work for you.  I dunno, definitely a curious case.  Next time I get fit, I'll probably spend the extra money to get fit from a more qualified golf academy instead of these mcdonalds-ish golf chains where the fitter is fitting you from a cheat sheet.