Tour Players and 2019 Rules (Running Topic)

[GolfLug]

In the past I have been guilty of thinking 'that is so unfair...' to some situation but am proud to say that I have a better grasp of rules as a whole after taking a more serious interest in understanding the rules ground up. I am only a weekend warrior so honestly I am failing to understand why there is not some kind of mandatory 'rules certification' requirement for a professional.

This sort of adversarial stance between the highest level of professionals and the ruling body is a horrible look for the sport in general, but to me it is clear that the players have it wrong here. The general public will obviously listen to Rickie (the general 'Rickie') instead of educating themselves the correct way. It's just much too easy and it is unfortunate. 

Edited March 5, 2019 by GolfLug

[DaveP043]

58 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

This is so simple that I find it a bit flabbergasting that they are having so much trouble getting it right.  Take the rule to heart for one practice round - player and caddie talk out various situations, deliberately set up in places where the caddie is unable to stand 10 feet off to the side as they normally do.  Decide then and there exactly how the two of you will handle any such incident when it happens in competition.  Take that practice round and and plan to take a drop every shot.  Ingrain the drop process through repetition, just as they do when they practice their swing. 

The thing is, they're NOT having that much trouble with the caddie rule.  As far as I am aware, there have been exactly 2 penalties assessed, out of all of the holes of golf, tens of thousands on pro tours worldwide.  It has been completely blown out of proportion by a small number of vocal critics (or whiners, if you prefer).

 

[iacas]

17 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

I am only a weekend warrior so honestly I am failing to understand why there is not some kind of mandatory 'rules certification' requirement for a professional.

There is to be a PGA pro, but obviously that's not what you're talking about.

I don't know why Web.com and PGA Tour players don't have to take a rules test or at least a class.

17 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

This sort of adversarial stance between the highest level of professionals and the ruling body is a horrible look for the sport in general, but to me it is clear that the players have it wrong here. The general public will obviously listen to Rickie (the general 'Rickie') instead of educating themselves the correct way. It's just much too easy and it is unfortunate. 

Yep.

“That Rule is So Unfair!” A Rules Geek’s Generalized Guide to Hot Takes and Overreactions | Rules Geeks

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I apologize for the length of this post. If I had more time I’d have written a shorter one. – Erik J. Barzeski “That Haotong Li penalty was an outrage! He didn’t gain an adv…

I'm hoping more people will read that.

1 minute ago, DaveP043 said:

The thing is, they're NOT having that much trouble with the caddie rule.  As far as I am aware, there have been exactly 2 penalties assessed, out of all of the holes of golf, tens of thousands on pro tours worldwide.  It has been completely blown out of proportion by a small number of vocal critics (or whiners, if you prefer).

Probably could have been four. I'm on the borderline with the Denny McCarthy one, and we never saw the Justin Thomas one. Haotong Li and Adam Schenk were the others.

They're also not having real trouble with the drop height rule. One penalty so far. Rory avoided one by re-dropping properly.

But they're whining a ton.

Good for Padraig.

[iacas]

Golf’s new rules: Whining from PGA Tour players isn’t a good look

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It is golf’s most threadbare cliché to say that the game reflects life — the need to play it as it lies, handle bad breaks, conduct oneself honorably. This blather about character and grit has kept…

Quote

It is golf’s most threadbare cliché to say that the game reflects life — the need to play it as it lies, handle bad breaks, conduct oneself honorably. This blather about character and grit has kept the sport’s more indolent announcers and marketing executives employed for generations. But a more fitting allegory for this golf-as-life theme, at least in the professional ranks, may be our cry baby culture, the ceaseless bellyaching by those who break rules and then petulantly insist the rules are stupid anyway.

and

Quote

The new rules were made public in March 2018 — nine months before they took effect. USGA officials attended player meetings and held one-on-one conversations at tournaments in advance of the rollout. Despite that outreach, plenty of players are peddling a narrative that blames their own ignorance on the USGA. It’s unsurprising. The blazers are the softest target in golf, portrayed as humorless scolds legislating all the fun out of the game.

Golf is on the verge of a rules crisis (with plenty to blame)

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This ongoing 2019 rules debacle is edging toward a crisis. Golf needs a grownup who can step up and protect the game from its baser instincts.

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There’s been a great deal of attention to a new rule this year about how to drop. There was a year-long review period before the new procedure, and the other rules changes, became golf law. Here’s a message to anybody with his or her name on a golf bag: Just learn the new rule and abide by it.

Does the new drop look ridiculous? It does now, because it’s new. A decade from now it won’t. Was this a rule that really needed to be changed, from the old shoulder-height drop? Probably not, but the USGA and the R&A had sound reasons for making the change, and also a long review period where you or I or Rickie Fowler could have tried to convince them not to make it. So we failed.

and

Quote

“The rule changes are what they are,” Schenk said. “They’re fine. Everybody has got to play by them, and I just unfortunately didn’t.”

Kid got it exactly correct. What an example.

Credit also to Thomas Bjorn:

Padraig Harrington, Thomas Bjorn come to defense of rule changes | Golf Channel

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Padraig Harrington and Thomas Bjorn came to the defense of the USGA and the R&A, both saying that the rule changes were made with input from players.

 

 

[Vinsk]

6 hours ago, colin007 said:

Well this is becoming a complete fustercluck....wanting their own set of rules? Thinking they're bigger than the game? Eff these guys...

https://www.golf.com/news/2019/03/04/new-rules-garbage-pga-tour-golf-rules/

These pros still continue to fall under the issues Erik addressed in his article. Until they come up with something intelligent to say it’s just a pack of whiney kids with grape koolaid mustaches complaining about the safety bar being to tight on Space Mountain.

 

2 hours ago, iacas said:

Golf’s new rules: Whining from PGA Tour players isn’t a good look

---

It is golf’s most threadbare cliché to say that the game reflects life — the need to play it as it lies, handle bad breaks, conduct oneself honorably. This blather about...

and

Golf is on the verge of a rules crisis (with plenty to blame)

---

This ongoing 2019 rules debacle is edging toward a crisis. Golf needs a grownup who can step up and protect the game from its baser instincts.

and

Credit also to Thomas Bjorn:

Padraig Harrington, Thomas Bjorn come to defense of rule changes | Golf Channel

---

Padraig Harrington and Thomas Bjorn came to the defense of the USGA and the R&A, both saying that the rule changes were made with input from players.

 

 

Wow. Landry showing the cry baby attitude at its best. What all these whiners are basically saying is, ‘ you’re not listening to me! I don’t care about your facts, reason or stats...I’M NOT HAPPY’ geesh. Shut up already.

[klineka]

LOL that caption. 

 

 

[saevel25]

This taunting does nothing but show their immaturity. 

Edited March 5, 2019 by saevel25

[iacas]

Well, that was a clusterf***, USGA.

Though I will say that it still seems apparent that JT has never had a conversation, when he could have, instead choosing to just mouth off to the media and on social media, rather than seeking out conversations with the USGA.

[Missouri Swede]

4 hours ago, GolfLug said:

I am only a weekend warrior so honestly I am failing to understand why there is not some kind of mandatory 'rules certification' requirement for a professional.

 

4 hours ago, iacas said:

I don't know why Web.com and PGA Tour players don't have to take a rules test or at least a class.

If they did that (or had to sign off on a statement that they had read and understood the rules), would that get rid of the "I didn't know that was a rule" excuse/explanation? (Like we saw as part of Olson's explanation in her backstopping example a week or so ago.)

If so, I imagine there would be strong player opposition to being held accountable for knowing the rules, and they would fight to oppose implementation.

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Missouri Swede

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Missouri Swede said:

If so, I imagine there would be strong player opposition to being held accountable for knowing the rules, and they would fight implementation.

Well since we don't have it now, I think that's perhaps one of the reasons why.

[GolfLug]

45 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

 

If they did that (or had to sign off on a statement that they had read and understood the rules), would that get rid of the "I didn't know that was a rule" excuse/explanation? (Like we saw as part of Olson's explanation in her backstopping example a week or so ago.)

If so, I imagine there would be strong player opposition to being held accountable for knowing the rules, and they would fight to oppose implementation.

 

IDK.. honestly a bit weird for me. Players are tasked to enforce rules themselves yet they are not required to be informed/knowledgeable of the rules.

Not sure what am I missing in this picture. You would not encounter that in any other walk of life. 

[Missouri Swede]

34 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

IDK.. honestly a bit weird for me. Players are tasked to enforce rules themselves yet they are not required to be informed/knowledgeable of the rules.

Not sure what am I missing in this picture. You would not encounter that in any other walk of life. 

Maybe this deserves a name change.  Instead of "professional" to refer to the touring pro and their organizations, how about "competition" or "competitive" golfer, since they are avoiding the responsibility that should go along with the term "professional"?

CGA Tour? "He's a Competition Golfer"?

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

Maybe this deserves a name change.  Instead of "professional" to refer to the touring pro and their organizations, how about "competition" or "competitive" golfer, since they are avoiding the responsibility that should go along with the term "professional"?

CGA Tour? "He's a Competition Golfer"?

My daughter, an amateur, is a competitive golfer too.

[Missouri Swede]

18 minutes ago, iacas said:

My daughter, an amateur, is a competitive golfer too.

I agree. But with the training you provide, I would wager good money that she behaves more professionally than the examples we’ve discussed. 

The idea was to get “professional” to mean more than “paid.”

Edited March 5, 2019 by Missouri Swede

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

I agree. But with the training you provide, I would wager good money that she behaves more professionally than the examples we’ve discussed. 

The idea was to get “professional” to mean more than “paid.”

Professional is governed by the Rules of Amateur status, though. And I don't agree with mucking around there.

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, Missouri Swede said:

I agree. But with the training you provide, I would wager good money that she behaves more professionally than the examples we’ve discussed. 

The idea was to get “professional” to mean more than “paid.”

The problem is many of us (sadly not all) are aware of what the proper behavior should be and how ridiculous the pros are acting. It’s they who are oblivious. And that last statement from the USGA backing off from JT only deepened the pile of s*** this never should’ve amounted to. Basically the USGA used the word ‘canceled’ improperly. But as these young types often do, they deflected the issue at hand by claiming victim status. JT, ‘ I was hurt.’ Olson, ‘ You’re making remarks that affect my reputation, my family...’ So effin’ typical. 

[DaveP043]

3 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

The problem is many of us (sadly not all) are aware of what the proper behavior should be and how ridiculous the pros are acting. It’s they who are oblivious. And that last statement from the USGA backing off from JT only deepened the pile of s*** this never should’ve amounted to. Basically the USGA used the word ‘canceled’ improperly. But as these young types often do, they deflected the issue at hand by claiming victim status. JT, ‘ I was hurt.’ Olson, ‘ You’re making remarks that affect my reputation, my family...’ So effin’ typical. 

I don't claim to know the absolute truth about the JT and USGA communication issue, i suspect its somewhere between the two versions.  But when two guys are chest to chest, someone has to back off first if they're going to avoid a fight.  I take this move by the USGA as that kind of step away from confrontation.  I'd hope Justin would do the adult thing, maybe admit that he's fine with a lot of the rule changes, and wants to work with the USGA to resolve his concerns about a few of them.  We'll see.

[iacas]

This guy can't wrap his head around the fact that the USGA/R&A were clever in creating the Rule the way they did:

A bad way to write that rule would be "a caddie cannot provide assistance in aligning a player while the player is taking his or her stance" because that would create massive loopholes.

He's also argued that Schenk and Li didn't "gain any advantage." 🤦‍♂️

The best rules are simple matters of fact, not complicated systems wherein players or officials have to try to determine subjective crap like "intent" or "whether an advantage was gained."