Bryson Dechambeau Plays Same-Length Irons

[iacas]

Can I ask why you have formed the opinion that Pinhawks are "crap"? Have you ever seen them in person or hit one?

Yes, I have hit them, and no, I do not judge quality by price. The point in me saying that was simply to re-focus the thread on the actual topic. Plus, he couldn't get clubs like he said for under $200. Again, and for the last time: this is not the topic here.

As far as them being an "advantage for everyone", I don't think anyone is claiming that. Do they make the game easier for some? Yes. Our happy customers and sales have proven that. Is a Pro going to use them? Probably not, but Bryson has done a pretty bang up job of "proof of concept".

The Alien Wedge makes the game easier for some, but it doesn't mean the majority or even a significant portion of the golf market should look to use an Alien wedge as an advantage.

As I've said, even Bryson has to make different swings with several of his other clubs. So he's not really gaining what in my opinion is a significant advantage.

You talked earlier about properly gapping your clubs and that the longer irons would need to be stronger lofted. You're correct, and it something we considered with the design. Our 5 iron is 25 degrees for example, with a 5 degree gap down to the PW. This helps even out the gaps in distance.

Okay. But is that really stronger? The TaylorMade RSi 5-irons are 23° and 24°. Blades with their higher CGs go up to about 27° only. Or are you just content to have slightly smaller distance gaps? Even the JPX 850 Forged is 25°.

I think Pinhawk did a great job of explaining the SL point of view.

I didn't think Aaron said very much. They said "easier for some" and "yeah we adjust the loft gaps." Those were already known, weren't they?

Since there are 6 irons (5-PW) the same length and you could / should have the other wedges the same length, so that could be 2 or 3 more. Pinhawks come with a 4 hybrid which will be the same length.

But you don't have to. You could end up with only six clubs one length, and seven other clubs you swing different lengths. If you have three woods/hybrids, and even if TEN other clubs are the same length (that would be tough to gap properly - who wants a 65° wedge the length of a 7-iron or a 2-hybrid that goes shorter than their regular length 4-hybrid?) that's still four different swings.

As for the woods, the driver is hit off a tee and for most is a different swing. The fairway woods would be a different ball position, but these clubs are used a lot less than the irons (at least for me).

They're still different swings. Ball position, lie angle, static weight, etc.

I wonder how I'd play if I went back to traditional clubs? I'd say I'd start hitting the approaches erratically again.

I don't know. I'm unsold on this. I haven't heard too many advantages to having between 46% and 76% of your clubs one length (out of 13, not 14, as I'm obviously excluding the putter). The difference between a Titleist MB 5-iron and PW is only 2.25". That's not much.

If some of you feel it work for you, cool. Enjoy golf. I just don't think it's for the majority or even a decent sized minority segment.

[Pinhawk]

If you've hit them and think they are crap, I'm surprised, but you're entitled to your opinion of course.

25 degrees was a strong 5 iron in 2010 when they were designed. As you know, lofts keep getting jacked every year. I still think 25 degrees is a strong 5. We may tweak the lofts soon because we are thinking of fitting in some wedges. The reason we haven't brought wedges to the market to this point is something you alluded to, playing a 37 or 37.5 wedge is pretty unwieldy. But the demand is there, so we ware looking into it. This would probably mean a loft tweak down the line.

Have you ever read Tutlemans thoughts on the subject? If not, you can read here: http://www.tutelman.com/golf/clubs/OneClub.php

It's a good, unbiased take, and I think the slight distance loss in the longer irons is made up for with better center face contact with a shorter club in the long irons. He's using the old Trajecto Ware program which does not take into account center face contact, just pure trajectory and distance.

We'll agree to disagree about the decent sized minority.

[iacas]

25 degrees was a strong 5 iron in 2010 when they were designed. As you know, lofts keep getting jacked every year.

As you know, there's more to launch conditions than the static loft of the clubhead.

Have you ever read Tutlemans thoughts on the subject? If not, you can read here:

I have, yes.

Agree to disagree, you say? Okay. History will help determine this, but the odds seem to be against you as I've never seen anyone playing single length irons. David from 1iron has been on here as well and not really gotten traction.

[Pinhawk]

As you know, there's more to launch conditions than the static loft of the clubhead.

I have, yes.

Agree to disagree, you say? Okay. History will help determine this, but the odds seem to be against you as I've never seen anyone playing single length irons. David from 1iron has been on here as well and not really gotten traction.

Loft is the main component, period. CG and shafts play a role, yes, but nothing compared to loft.

How are the odds against us when they are already a success? Success is relative, we're not trying to be Acushnet here.

[mvmac]

Loft is the main component, period. CG and shafts play a role, yes, but nothing compared to loft.

Disagree with that. Take two Callaway irons for example, Apex MB and Big Bertha 5 irons. MB is 27 degrees and BB is 23, the BB 5 iron is designed and going to launch higher than the MB 5 iron. Heck I've even tested the Apex Pro and the BB side by side and found this to be true. Shafts weren't exactly the same but both were stiff steel. Bottom line is CG is very important.

How are the odds against us when they are already a success? Success is relative, we're not trying to be Acushnet here.

@iacas is just saying that he's never played with anyone that's used single length irons. I haven't either and I've played golf with a lot of people.

[dchoye]

Congrats to Bryson for winning the U S amateur. He does have a unique set of same length irons Also he uses Jumbo Max grips with those single length irons. Unconventional but seems to work for him

[mvmac]

Not trying to add to the buzz because this whole single length iron hype is annoying. But thought this guy brought up some good points.

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2015/8/24/same-length-irons-will-dechambeau-start-a-trend.html

But before you head out and cut all your iron shafts to 7-iron length, you better recognize that you’re going to need more than one adjustment to make it work. And it might be an adjustment that standard golf clubs can’t possibly make.

“We are all used to swinging a golf club that’s basically D0 to D4,” Choung says. “So if we just arbitrarily cut these things down and didn’t have the ability to adjust the weights on it, you could end up with a 3-iron that’s super stiff with a swingweight of C3.”

[saevel25]

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/ryan-lavner/dechambeau-tops-bard-7-and-6-us-am-final/

A good article on the guy. By the sounds of it, he seems to have a quirky unique personality.

[Hardspoon]

I'm curious to see what happens when he goes pro and equipment decisions are complicated by sponsorship dollars...maybe significant ones, if he is as good as he seems (and his equipment continues to be part of the "story"). This is not to mention apparel decisions; I'm not sure TaylorMade makes that style of hat (yet)!

[Pete F]

I'm curious to see what happens when he goes pro and equipment decisions are complicated by sponsorship dollars...maybe significant ones, if he is as good as he seems (and his equipment continues to be part of the "story").

This is not to mention apparel decisions; I'm not sure TaylorMade makes that style of hat (yet)!

Edel will come out with the mass produced DeChambeau club in 4 different sizes and re-energize the golf equipment business.

I guarantee some big companies are thinking hard right now.

Titleist will refuse to change and go the way of Wilson and Spalding.

[mvmac]

I'm curious to see what happens when he goes pro and equipment decisions are complicated by sponsorship dollars...maybe significant ones, if he is as good as he seems (and his equipment continues to be part of the "story").

This is not to mention apparel decisions; I'm not sure TaylorMade makes that style of hat (yet)!

Any OEM can make him what he needs. Just like Edel (or the club fitter) did. The Edel irons aren't single length irons, they were customized/built to what he wanted.

He's a quirky guy so he might stick with his Edel irons/wedges/putter but sign with TMAG and use the woods/clothes/ball. Similar kind of deal that some TaylorMade guys have.

Edel will come out with the mass produced DeChambeau club in 4 different sizes and re-energize the golf equipment business.

I guarantee some big companies are thinking hard right now.

Titleist will refuse to change and go the way of Wilson and Spalding.

Welcome to the site @Pete F .

Very small chance of any of those things happening.

[Hardspoon]

Any OEM can make him what he needs. Just like Edel (or the club fitter) did. The Edel irons aren't single length irons, they were customized/built to what he wanted.

Understood - I think that's what makes it interesting. Someone with his talent might end up with a bidding war...and the fact that his equipment has a "buzz" around it might enhance that.  It is probably rare...

[mvmac]

Understood - I think that's what makes it interesting. Someone with his talent might end up with a bidding war...and the fact that his equipment has a "buzz" around it might enhance that.  It is probably rare...

Right, no doubt his unique equipment gets his name out there more and will be part of his story going forward.

[Duff McGee]

@Mvmac have you ever used that swing circle machine thing he uses at the end of the video? Would that be something an amateur should do? Looks like it helps put you on the right plane automatically and helps grove a good path.

[nevets88]

Brandel Chamblee says DeChambeau only uses to good stuff from TGM, throws out the bad and there's plenty of bad in TGM.

I haven't gotten a chance to watch the US Amateur. Is this his stock short game pitch/chip motion?

[mvmac]

@Mvmac have you ever used that swing circle machine thing he uses at the end of the video? Would that be something an amateur should do? Looks like it helps put you on the right plane automatically and helps grove a good path.

I haven't but it does look like a good training aid.

I haven't gotten a chance to watch the US Amateur. Is this his stock short game pitch/chip motion?

That's funny because Dana posted this pic yesterday with the caption "Wedge".

[Chriscom]

I have to laugh a bit at all the comments about how difficult it would be to make single-length clubs properly, when not only Pinhawk--with which I have only recently become familiar--but especially David Lake with his 1 Iron Golf set has been successfully building and selling these for at least a decade. 1 Iron Golf was mentioned early in this thread but I didn't see any other comment about it.

Lake basically maintains there isn't any good play-improvement reason for the variation in length of most clubs. The different lengths within groups have very little effect on distance but they do help make you less accurate. Win-win! Not!

I've played his clubs for years and love them, and far more accomplished golfers than me use them. The irons are one length, the woods are a different length, and the driver is yet another length. He recently came out with a newer "pro" line that I assume are more accurate and less forgiving.

[vangator]

I think I recall Bryson started out with 1-Iron clubs. Making Edel irons into one length seems like a step up since I've heard a lot of positives about Edel equipment. The Edel irons certainly aren't anything to look at though.