Stroke Shaving (Cheating)

I have been caddying for my daughter this year in her age division (14) on the local 9 hole prep tour, providing advice, etc.  The one thing I've noticed is the number of kids that truly can't count past 6, or they are cheating on purpose.  I've been training daughter how to mentally keep a tally in her head of her opponents strokes, rather than just trusting the number they call out is accurate.  If I have spotted a discrepany, I've made her address the girl to resolve the difference before proceeding.  So far this has worked, and she is starting to see how important it is to stay plugged into the round and keep your head in the game.  I told her.. how would you feel if you shot a good score on the HS golf team, only to get beat out by a stroke because someone else wanted to cheat and kick you down to the JV team and take your rightful spot.

It's a shame, but a buddy of mine who has 3 sons who all played on the HS golf team said it was crazy the number of kids who he felt were cheating on purpose and never got called on it.  He did say at the Regional event, all of the "Low Scorers" somehow shot terrible due a walking monitor being placed in each foresome.

What have you witnessed, and it is that pervasive from your experience?

Happens all the time.

I played in a tournament last year with a guy who had the counting ability of a 3 year old.

Myself and the other two guys ignored it, but his score at the end was about 10 strokes off what it really was. I have no time to confront someone on it and make it awkward -  I have to play golf with them for 4 hours. If they cheat - good on them, it will eventually catch up with them. It was frustrating because I was having a terrible round and ended up with a 96, but his round was worse than mine and he ended up with 90.

I am going to the same tournament this September - will be interesting to see how he scores.

Back when I was in HS I played a round with a kid who hit every shot into the woods off the tee...and somehow still managed to shoot a 79...

Last weekend I played with a guy on a local course who was completely erratic off the tee, and three putted every green on the front nine...he claimed to have shot a 39...after the front nine I just stopped conversing with him about golf...he was obviously "playing well" in his mind, if only that.

You are teaching your daughter the game of golf correctly...if only ALL parents taught their kids integrity and dedication.

Cheating will always be around in the amateur world of golf, especially on the competitive side unfortunately...teaching your daughter to count her playing partners strokes and hold them accountable is dead on. Kudos!

I remember those days...it was crazy to see how much difference there was in people's scores when playing with a monitor...for me it made it more fun...like my own little gallery...lol

Look, this is the way I look at it... if it's a casual round and the bozo I got paired with wants to cheat then whatever, I couldn't care less and it does happen all the time.

If you are in a tournament and your opponent is cheating, it is your responsibility to call them on it.  Your final spot as well as everybody else's depend on it.  When I was in high school playing golf, I always counted my opponents score, and often times they'd "forget" a stroke that I didn't.  The OP is doing a good job by teaching his daughter these things.

I know it is very difficult at that age for kids to even remember anything, so I am sure it hard to remember something as dynamic as your own score, others scores, rules, etc.    Adults, no sympathy though.  My brother... love him dearly, but for a man to have a Juris Doc he sure has a hard time counting past 6 also.

Yeah I abso****inlutely hate cheaters in the game of golf. In HS this was one thing that made me not get into golf like I now wish I had, you can't compete with people who cheat. I live close to Aspen, CO and for some reason rich snobby kids feel the need to cheat more than anyone else. Yes I am stereotyping aspen people (not all are like this) but they ruined it for themselves in my growing up and playing sports against them. Parents, coaches, and players yelling curse words at us and each other when we were playing little league baseball... wtf. Thats a story for another time back to cheating.

As a competitor at the amateur level, you have to count your opponents strokes. It got the point where I would count my entire groups scores in high school tournaments. What you are teaching your daughter is exactly what I was taught, and its funny how guys would all of a sudden start playing worse when they were with me. Sometimes I would call players out and it was as if they were shocked that I would do such a thing and arguments would commence until I came out on top and wrote down the correct score.

I remember playing with a kid who had a terrible swing, terrible short game, terrible everything (from aspen). He shot in the 100s when I was keeping his score. A few tournaments later I played with him again and he had posted a score in the 70s at the prior tournaments and medaled if i remember correctly. Suddenly with me he was back to his old self shooting way into the 100s.

Even on our own team there were cheaters. One kid had always been shooting scores in the 70s, since before high school and everyone knew he was cheating. Finally our own coach followed him around the course at a tournament and called him out on several holes where he cheated, DQd him from the tourney, and kicked him off the team for the rest of the year. And now hes studying to be a golf pro, hopefully he learned his lesson.

I remember my 1st year golfing as a junior. I was only 10-11 and would be shooting around 50-55ish for 9 holes. I thought I was fairly rubbish because I kept hearing of people my age breaking 50 easy for 9 holes in previous competitions. Then for the first competiton I showed up to they decided to put an adult marker with all the groups. I played fantastic and shot 47 and thought I might have a chance of a top 5 finish. Little did I know that I had actually won by 7 shots.

Oh the young......

I will say now though that none of that cheating group play golf anymore (they all gave up before 16) and the people my age (20) that still play all play by the rules and always have.

I'll usually yell "NOT COUNTING IT!" to my buddies, if I make a poor shot... They do the same...

It always get's counted

In competitive environments, though, there is no respect for people who cheat. I'd rather an honest 100 than a fake 75.

IMO, in that tournament environment if you aren't calling them on it, you are in fact condoning cheating.

A former buddy of mine was notorious in "miscounting" his strokes.  After a couple of times calling him out, I refuse to golf with him any more.  I hate cheater, even in a casual round where we are only playing for a drink at the end of the round.

you kinda get use to noticing everyone elses score, i just remember there shots for that hole, visually. i don't say thats one two or three. I remember them swinging, the type of shot they made. Then i just piece it together later. So if they hit on in the lake, i would think. Drive down the left, approach in the water, drop 1, hitt the chip, two putt. Its easier for me to remember visually what people do. Its pretty easy to remember 3 other people in your group.

Maybe. He was a miserable, short tempered guy who I had to share a cart with. I am there to enjoy myself. Arguing with a guy like that would probably ruin my day. Winning a hat or a golf shirt for the sake of arguing with a guy over his scoring and making the atmosphere awkward is not worth it. Maybe someone else called him out - none of us did.

I came second to last in my flight, he came 3rd to last. He didn't win anything.

We had a winner who shot 3 rounds in the high 70's ( 12 handicapper )

When I started playing I was pretty much on my own.  No one in my family played and none of my friends played.  Without any guidance I got into some bad habits scoring-wise - you know, "that one really didn't count" kind of stuff.  At some point I realized that the only one I was cheating was myself.  I learned the rules and started playing by them scrupulously.  And for me that includes putting virtually everything out.  And I don't play in tournaments or even in casual matches.  I don't bet.  But the competition is fierce - between me and the course.  Since I have no skin in a playing partner's game I don;t care how they keep score.  If they ask me what they got I'll tell them (I have a genetic defect that makes me count everything - golf shots, number of steps in a staircase, etc.) but if on the tee they say they had a 4 when I know it was a 5 I let them keep on deluding themselves.

Unfortunately this cheating is rampant, no matter what the age group.

I've played with younger guys that have never beaten me on a single hole, yet post a lower score every time and older guys that believe that no hole can go over bogey. These are the same people that shoot 10 strokes under their handicap whenever they play alone.

It is frustrating to listen to them talk smack when you know you have beaten them, but it is much more frustrating for me to count everyone else's strokes when I am trying to enjoy a round.

My close friends never cheat on the course and those that aren't so close will disappear from my life at some point anyway.

When I played high school golf every match was a stroke play and our league was in 2 divisions so all 6 teams from your division played at every match. Obviously this lead to a lot of nice relationships being formed so a lot of kids would post scores well beyond their ability. The coaches tried to switch the line ups around because every team also had honest players but there no way possible to even combat it. I would try to keep track of everyones score in my group but when you have 3 other guys it was almost impossible for me. When districts rolled around you had a scorer for your group and it was funny all the kids shooting 70s all season would throw up a 90+. I helped coach a team for 2 years before I moved to MD basically the head coach and myself made it very clear if you get caught cheating once don't bother coming back. I don't entirely blame parents because some kids don't take peer pressure very well and get talked into things they know are wrong. I always told the kids come tell me and I will come out to walk along so if I see it I will say something. The other thing I hated about high school golf was there was always one kid who if he started getting beat would just become overly annoying. I will never forget I was playing with one kid who was a good golfer but very quite and this other kid who was talkative but could be annoying. We are all playing together the quite kid has a good round going so the annoying kid start chiming in about his mother and saying other stuff. We tee off on a par 3 and possibly my 5 iron slipped out of my hand it might have caught his shoe so he may have fallen. Pretty sure he got the point since he really didn't talk the entire rest of the round ironically though he got the last laugh turns out he became a cop in my home town and I was speeding... can't win em all

+1.

I could care less if it's a practice round or if someone is working on a vanity handicap.  I don't play tournaments, but if I did I would insist people keep score correctly.