or Connect
TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The Clubhouse › Golf Talk › What Should I Have Done?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

What Should I Have Done?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

I recently played in a 3-day tournament and came in second place after a pretty brutal final round (5 hours in the pouring rain with poor play by me). I lost by one stroke to someone who I know did not shoot the scores that were posted.

 

During the second day he had a blowup hole of a 10 on a par 4 (with a decent round otherwise) where he signed for a 9 instead of the 10 he should have carded. I knew the mistake was there, but I didn't want to sort of rub salt in the wound of it already being bad enough since I was ahead of him by 3 and tied for the lead. This was likely a mistake on my part to let it happen in the first place. In addition to that, I had to repeatedly (~5-7 times) ask him and his caddy (who was his girlfriend) to be quiet during both mine and our playing partner's swings due to their loud conversation. There were also three times before I started asking them to be quiet where they would talk as I would about to swing so I would step back and look at them until they stopped.

 

Regardless, the third day comes up and it's terrible weather. It's raining with probably around 5% of the course having stagnant standing water. The decision is made that we will play anyways, so we go out and play another 18. During this round there is lift clean and place in effect through the green, which means that anywhere in the rough, fringe, or fairway you can mark your ball, clean it, and place it anywhere within one clublength no nearer the hole. One time while I was near this player he was going to place it in a spot nearer the green, so I merely made a friendly reminder that he wasn't allowed to do that ("Hey, just a heads up that your placement of the ball can't be any nearer the green, the same as if you were dropping from a hazard."). I did, however, observe from a distance while he did exactly that on at least three occasions because going closer meant he could place at a more beneficial angle around a tree or for a chip. Since I wasn't near him I did not say anything just because, while it appeared obvious to me, there was the possibility that distance distorted my view of his placement. One of those three placements included an improper distance from his placement, where he used his driver (which was fine) but placed it a good 6" beyond the end of the driver to get the better angle around the tree.

 

The drops were minor things to me, at least in comparison to what irked me the most about this person's behavior on the final day. Were were paired in a group of four with me and one other tied for the lead, one person one stroke behind, and this individual three strokes behind. Throughout the day both he and his caddy appeared to make a point of talking while others were swinging. I know it cost me at least two strokes on one hole with OB left where his caddy (still his girlfriend) burst out laughing in the start of my downswing (apparently he said something funny) and my attempt to abort the swing resulted in the ball hitting the toe of the club and duck hooking OB. It wasn't one of those polite "ha ha, that was mildly funny" laughs but a "I just about choked I laughed so hard" laugh which is the only reason I tried to stop the swing (it startled me to be honest when the only other noise had been the rain before it). After this they stopped from talking while people were teeing off, but they apparently figured that you couldn't hear them making out or talking noisily just because you were 15' away in the fairway. On the greens there were a couple incidents where the caddy yelled across the green to ask for a score from a player in the middle of someone's putting stroke, but that can just be chalked down to the fact that I imagine this was her first couple times ever on a golf course.

 

I was quite disappointed when we turned in the scorecards and I found that he beat me by one stroke, but at that point I knew it would just be petty to mention the mistake on the previous day's scorecard ("Hey mister, I'm not a sore loser or anything but this guy cheated."). I'm conflicted about how I feel since I did play poorly on the final round while he played well, but I also know that he at the very least was not a very scrupulous competitor. There were money payouts (he received ~$100 to my $45) but I am mostly let down by the fact that I feel I should have won if I had spoken up instead of remained quiet. At the same time I'm not sure how sportsmanlike it would have been to point out his mistakes or ask for the tournament organizer to talk to his caddy about golf etiquette after the second round (he had a much more well versed caddy the first day) since it would have felt like either kicking him while he was down or punishing someone who was partially being instigated by the player.

 

How would you have handled this situation or something similar?

post #2 of 29

I've never played in a tournament, so take my advice for what it is.

 

You should have called him out on the cheating on the second day. You should have brought his rules infractions to the attention of an official on the third day. I'm not really sure why you did neither of those things. You wanted to be nice to the guy, which is noble and all, but you hurt how many other players in the process? This player clearly has no respect for the rules of golf, the etiquette, or the game itself, and his poor conduct was rewarded with a tournament win.

 

Where were the other members of your group? Why didn't they say anything? Did they not know or understand these infractions?

 

I think, based on your history here, that you know you knew better. Call it a lesson learned; I'm sorry that it cost you a tournament win.

post #3 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post

Where were the other members of your group? Why didn't they say anything? Did they not know or understand these infractions?

Usually the other members were also preparing to hit their shots. I usually outdrove the people at least by a bit so I would have to wait to go up to my ball. Watching them hit their shots was how I would wait.

post #4 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post
 

Usually the other members were also preparing to hit their shots. I usually outdrove the people at least by a bit so I would have to wait to go up to my ball. Watching them hit their shots was how I would wait.

So basically you were the one in the best position to alert the officials? I'm sorry man, but you dropped the ball on that one.

post #5 of 29

Just take it as a lesson learned that you don't let anyone slight the rules even if it's a 9 instead of a 10 it's still a stroke that would have made an obvious difference, the making noise crap should have stopped after the first incident no tolerance on that, I guess the only satisfaction is that you know you won, only he stole it from you in the end, next time don't be so nice.

post #6 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by flopster View Post
 

Just take it as a lesson learned that you don't let anyone slight the rules even if it's a 9 instead of a 10 it's still a stroke that would have made an obvious difference, the making noise crap should have stopped after the first incident no tolerance on that, I guess the only satisfaction is that you know you won, only he stole it from you in the end, next time don't be so nice.

 

^^^^^^^^^^This. Talking, or making noises while someone is about to hit, or putt, shouldn't be tolerated. What you, or anyone would have done to someone like that is up for debate, but I for sure know what I would have done, and I'd likely been kicked off the course..lol

post #7 of 29
Thread Starter 

I suppose on the noise issue I just kind of gave up after the first round of attempts failed. Does anyone know of a tactful way to say, "You REALLY need to shut up" without coming across as a jerk?

post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post
 

I suppose on the noise issue I just kind of gave up after the first round of attempts failed. Does anyone know of a tactful way to say, "You REALLY need to shut up" without coming across as a jerk?

 

Why would You come across as a jerk..? Seriously, sometimes you need to stand up for what's right, he was the jerk in the first place, if you told him to shut the hell up, you would have been in the right, and likely would have been thanked by others in your group. Me, I would have taken it a step further...which usually gets me in trouble.

post #9 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post
 

I suppose on the noise issue I just kind of gave up after the first round of attempts failed. Does anyone know of a tactful way to say, "You REALLY need to shut up" without coming across as a jerk?


You sound like a really nice person who doesn't like it when things get escalated and I respect that, however sometimes letting things continue will just make it worse, I played in a tournament last year and my partner told me one of the guys in our group mentioned I was slow, well needless it did affect me and also I'm not a slow player but anyways I just let it build until the 11th hole and I just let it out on the guy right there on the green, he backed up about 10 steps saying he didn't mean what he said that way and that I wasn't a slow player, we shook hands and put it to rest and then I played the next 7 holes 2 under. Bottom line it's better to stop that stuff early than let it get out of hand I should have opened my mouth also earlier because I played like crap until then.

post #10 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer 4 View Post
 

 

Why would You come across as a jerk..? Seriously, sometimes you need to stand up for what's right, he was the jerk in the first place, if you told him to shut the hell up, you would have been in the right, and likely would have been thanked by others in your group. Me, I would have taken it a step further...which usually gets me in trouble.

Just because, even though the caddy and player were talking during people's swings, I would have felt bad saying it to someone who could potentially become interested in golf later (it was pretty apparent that the caddy had never been to a course before). I don't want to have someone's first day on a golf course end with someone getting mad at them over a piece of etiquette they didn't know existed 20 minutes prior to stepping onto the course for the first time.

post #11 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post

Just because, even though the caddy and player were talking during people's swings, I would have felt bad saying it to someone who could potentially become interested in golf later (it was pretty apparent that the caddy had never been to a course before). I don't want to have someone's first day on a golf course end with someone getting mad at them over a piece of etiquette they didn't know existed 20 minutes prior to stepping onto the course for the first time.
The boyfriend knew better. He should have taught her. He didn't, so somebody else should have.

The girl has no idea now that you're supposed to be quiet during somebody's swing and she will have poor golf course etiquette. I think you did her a disservice, really.

First time I played golf, I learned basic etiquette. Nobody gave me a primer beforehand. I would do something wrong, and someone would correct me. It's how you learn what behavior is and isn't acceptable.
post #12 of 29
Pretzel, in a tournament, all players in the group must sign the scorecards of other competitors. if you knew the guy recorded the wrong score, and signed his card, you would be disqualified (along with him) under rule 33-7.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-06/#d6-6a-5 (see ruling 6-6a/5).

You must protect the field. You are not being mean or a prick. It is a learning experience for the other guy (who is a cheating bastid).

The player could also be disqualified for continually breaching etiquette under rule 33-7.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Etiquette/

I called a guy on lift, clean and place. We had a local rule of 6 inches and he thought it was one club length. Big difference. He thought it was one club length and was going to play it as such. I "reminded" him that signing an incorrect score card was disqualification. He ended up replacing the ball within 6 inches. Good thing because I was right.

I was called one time when a practice swing caused a leaf to fall from a tree. I learned a rule that day.

Golf rules can be evil.
Edited by vangator - 7/30/14 at 10:51pm
post #13 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vangator View Post

Pretzel, in a tournament, all players in the group must sign the scorecards of other competitors. if you knew the guy recorded the wrong score, and signed his card, you would be disqualified (along with him) under rule 33-7.

No, only the scorer and the player need sign the scorecard. You need two signatures to turn it in to the tournament organizer and that's always the first thing they check for.

post #14 of 29
If the player and the scorekeeper both said he made a 9, there might not really have been much that you could do anyway.

As for the talking in your backswing, I'd like to think that I probably would have spoken up about that. I tend to shy away from confrontation, but just quietly telling the guy that it's not nice to talk when someone is swinging could be done gently unless you're dealing with a total *******.
post #15 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post
As for the talking in your backswing, I'd like to think that I probably would have spoken up about that. I tend to shy away from confrontation, but just quietly telling the guy that it's not nice to talk when someone is swinging could be done gently unless you're dealing with a total *******.

That's the problem. I asked them somewhere between five and seven times the first day if they would stop, saying things like, "Would you mind pausing your conversation while I'm hitting? It helps me focus that way." "If you don't mind, could you please not talk while I or others are swinging. It allows us to focus." "Please do not talk while we are trying to hit/putt the ball. It's a courtesy that is expected on the golf course."

 

At that point I was ready to grab his bag and start snapping clubs over my knee, but I thought better of it when I realized what kind of price tag would be associated with such an act (he had all the latest Titleist gear besides a putter, which was apparently some prototype from a family friend with his name engraved on it). I tend to get my anger out by picturing myself doing stuff like that than actually doing it, which works out better for me than if I did it. I let it out once on someone in a tournament when he was playing poorly and started moping and interfering with everyone else by becoming obnoxious with sympathy seeking behavior and excessive swearing, and then immediately regretted it afterwords.

post #16 of 29
High school tournament right? Couldn't you have spoke to someone about it.
post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post

If the player and the scorekeeper both said he made a 9, there might not really have been much that you could do anyway.

As for the talking in your backswing, I'd like to think that I probably would have spoken up about that. I tend to shy away from confrontation, but just quietly telling the guy that it's not nice to talk when someone is swinging could be done gently unless you're dealing with a total *******.

Yeah, I'm like Jamo here.  Oh, and I'm 40 years old now.  When I was his (Jamos) age (and I think you're [Pretzel] even a pinch younger than him) I was even more shy and non-confrontational and easily intimidated, etc, etc.  Bottom line, I know how you feel and I probably would have done the exact same thing in that situation.

 

Just shake it off, call it a lesson learned, and apply that lesson next time.  You're a good kid, so just try not to let this affect you and keep playing well and playing right.:beer:

post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post
 

That's the problem. I asked them somewhere between five and seven times the first day if they would stop, saying things like, "Would you mind pausing your conversation while I'm hitting? It helps me focus that way." "If you don't mind, could you please not talk while I or others are swinging. It allows us to focus." "Please do not talk while we are trying to hit/putt the ball. It's a courtesy that is expected on the golf course."

 

It's not just a courtesy. It's in the Rules of Golf.

 

Quote:

Consideration For Other Players

No Disturbance Or Distraction

Players should always show consideration for other players on the course and should not disturb their play by moving, talking or making unnecessary noise.

Players should ensure that any electronic device taken onto the course does not distract other players.

On the teeing ground, a player should not tee his ball until it is his turn to play.

Players should not stand close to or directly behind the ball, or directly behind the hole, when a player is about to play.

 

 

Quote:

Conclusion; Penalties For Breach

If players follow the guidelines in this section, it will make the game more enjoyable for everyone.

If a player consistently disregards these guidelines during a round or over a period of time to the detriment of others, it is recommended that the Committee considers taking appropriate disciplinary action against the offending player. Such action may, for example, include prohibiting play for a limited time on the course or in a certain number of competitions. This is considered to be justifiable in terms of protecting the interests of the majority of golfers who wish to play in accordance with these guidelines.

In the case of a serious breach of etiquette, the Committee may disqualify a player under Rule 33-7.

 

 

So… he could have been DQed.

Learn to man up. It's the Rules of Golf, and you're not just protecting yourself, but the others in the field, who are relying on you. You kind of have a bit of an obligation.

 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Golf Talk
TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The Clubhouse › Golf Talk › What Should I Have Done?