Know How vs Execution

[David in FL]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

That's an insulting bit of absolute bullshit, but beyond that, cool.

It isn’t intended to insult, It’s simply an old adage.  

Beyond that though, can you name a teaching pro who could reasonably compete on the PGA Tour?

 

 

[dennyjones]

1 hour ago, David in FL said:

Beyond that though, can you name a teaching pro who could reasonably compete on the PGA Tour?

 

You probably won't find one because they don't take the time and dedication to get to the competitive level.     I'm not sure very many, if any at all, could even with the practice and dedication.    Golfers don't work hard to get to the PGA level to drop out and teach.    They may teach after they are no longer competitive on that level. 

[David in FL]

12 minutes ago, dennyjones said:

You probably won't find one because they don't take the time and dedication to get to the competitive level.     I'm not sure very many, if any at all, could even with the practice and dedication.    Golfers don't work hard to get to the PGA level to drop out and teach.    They may teach after they are no longer competitive on that level. 

Or far more often, because they know that they lack the ability to play at that level in the first place.

Again, it’s not intended as an insult, nor to demean the value of good instructors, but simply an honest observation.  

[Buckeyebowman]

On 4/15/2019 at 9:43 AM, dennyjones said:

Sparky Anderson was probably one of the best baseball managers but he couldn't cut it as a major league player.   Playing and knowing how to play are completely different.     John Wooden was arguably one of the best basketball coaches but you won't see his name as one of the basketball player greats. 

Great point! Ted Williams was a phenomenal baseball players, but stunk as a manager. Same with Frank Robinson. I think that those who aren't gifted with great natural ability may study the game more, and eventually come to amass a whole lot more knowledge about it.  Does anybody think Red Auerbach was a great basketball player? But, he could coach the hell out of the game and was a great judge of talent! 

[Vinsk]

Again we’re on that ‘Tour level’ basis. Earning a living on the Tour is hardly the determining factor as to whether a teacher can ‘do.’ Hell I’d be extremely  happy, proud and thoroughly satisfied if I could play this game as good as @iacas. I mean damn...as a life accomplishment he’s obviously a top notch instructor AND a damn good golfer..among other things. But as far as golf and ‘know how vs execution’ I’d say he’s got that covered as many others probably do who teach. Yes?

[David in FL]

9 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Again we’re on that ‘Tour level’ basis. Earning a living on the Tour is hardly the determining factor as to whether a teacher can ‘do.’ Hell I’d be extremely  happy, proud and thoroughly satisfied if I could play this game as good as @iacas. I mean damn...as a life accomplishment he’s obviously a top notch instructor AND a damn good golfer..among other things. But as far as golf and ‘know how vs execution’ I’d say he’s got that covered as many others probably do who teach. Yes?

Yes.

But the OP was specifically about tour level performance.  In fact, tour level winning performance.  Thus, my “do”, addressed that...  

Edited April 19, 2019 by David in FL

[Vinsk]

25 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Yes.

But the OP was specifically about tour level performance.  In fact, tour level winning performance.  Thus, my “do”, addressed that...  

You’re right. Sorry..I missed that. However I will add that sometimes people forget that maybe the Tour life isn’t what these guys want. Maybe teaching is their passion and so they do that to the best level they feel is possible. I don’t know about Haney, Harmon, etc..but I don’t know if they ever said it was their true dream to play on tour.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Vinsk

[David in FL]

17 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

You’re right. Sorry..I missed that. However I will add that sometimes people forget that maybe the Tour life isn’t what these guys want. Maybe teaching is their passion and so they do that to the best level they feel is possible. I don’t know about Haney, Harmon, etc..but I don’t know if they ever said it was their true dream to play on tour.

Absolutely true   

[FLOG4]

I'm surprised nobody advised Harmon has won one PGA Tour event....Some event which was played same week as British Open way back when...

The basic question of know how vs execution is applicable to every endeavor. All sports...The best managers of baseball, basketball, football, hockey....etal .....and many business jobs. The best salesman usually is not a good manager. The manager of salesmen was probably not a good salesman. 

The concept is relatively true that one skill does not necessarily transition to the other.  There are something like 10,000 scratch golfers in the US. Only 200 or so are playing on tour. The difference between being tour quality and a very good golfer[scratch] is actually much more than most realize. The pinnacle of the pyramid is ridiculously difficult to achieve....even if you are really good.  

[Diece]

Skill level of the teacher doesn't necessarily matter.

What matters is what are his pupils doing?

Are they winning? Are they dominating?

Or is his "best" pupil some guy who one time played in the U.S Amateur Championship and was cut.

Of course this depends on what you want out of the game in the first place.

If you're just looking to shoot 90, almost any teacher will do.

But it's like anything, if you want to get even marginally good. You need to put the time in.

Spend everyday practicing for 30 minutes, + playing on the weekends you'll break 90 relatively quickly. 

 

 

 

 

[iacas]

9 hours ago, Vinsk said:

You’re right. Sorry..I missed that. However I will add that sometimes people forget that maybe the Tour life isn’t what these guys want. Maybe teaching is their passion and so they do that to the best level they feel is possible. I don’t know about Haney, Harmon, etc..but I don’t know if they ever said it was their true dream to play on tour.

This was the bulk of it. David, your stupid phrase is insulting because I neither wanted nor tried to be a “do-er” at the Tour level. I discovered a passion for instruction. And I know of a TON of other teachers who are similar - they wanted to be the best coaches they could be.

Not to mention that my wife and mother are teachers. My wife gave up a lucrative position in business because she wanted to teach. She can “do” seventh grade math. She can do collegiate level math. Ditto for my mother.

It’s fine that you said it once. But it’s not fine you continued on after being called on it.

---

Absent a physical issue that prevents someone from doing something, coaches should generally be able to demonstrate what they “know.” That doesn’t mean hitting Tour level shots, but if you want a guy to add more palmar flexion through the downswing, you should be able to demonstrate that at some speed.

[ncates00]

39 minutes ago, iacas said:

Not to mention that my wife and mother are teachers. My wife gave up a lucrative position in business because she wanted to teach. She can “do” seventh grade math. She can do collegiate level math. Ditto for my mother.

Slightly off topic, but I agree.  I went the opposite direction as I taught for 6 years before turning to law.  Loved teaching; pay just really sucks for teachers, even with advanced degrees.  It's fun gig though, or at least where I taught it was--kids were great, administrators were very approachable, and co-workers were also friends.  And I taught in an inner-city school to boot.

I will always think highly of teachers because a lot of my friends are teachers and I used to be one.  Like all careers, you can put it on "coast mode" and not put out the best product, education has some of these slackers unfortunately, but most, like the ladies in your life @iacas, could have done other things but wanted to teach.

Edited April 19, 2019 by ncates00

[boogielicious]

12 hours ago, David in FL said:

It isn’t intended to insult, It’s simply an old adage.  

Beyond that though, can you name a teaching pro who could reasonably compete on the PGA Tour?

 

 

Were your drill instructors not good enough to be marines?

There are a few here. Certainly there are more too, Dave Stockton is a former pro. I like his teaching method for putting.

World Golf Teachers Hall of Fame

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The World Golf Teachers Hall of Fame was founded in 1998 by Golf Magazine to ensure that the theories and philosophies of the game's greatest instructors live on. It is...

 

[David in FL]

4 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Were your drill instructors not good enough to be marines?

There are a few here. Certainly there are more too.

World Golf Teachers Hall of Fame

---

The World Golf Teachers Hall of Fame was founded in 1998 by Golf Magazine to ensure that the theories and...

 

Silliness.

Drill Instructors are Marines.  They were long before they became Drill Instructors.

Edited April 19, 2019 by David in FL

[boogielicious]

Just now, David in FL said:

Silliness.

Drill instructors are Marines.  They were long before they became Drill Instructors.

Dave Stockton was a Tour winning Pro long before he became a teacher.

[chspeed]

11 hours ago, dennyjones said:

You probably won't find one because they don't take the time and dedication to get to the competitive level.     I'm not sure very many, if any at all, could even with the practice and dedication.    Golfers don't work hard to get to the PGA level to drop out and teach.    They may teach after they are no longer competitive on that level. 

I would flip this around.

Most tour-level players can't and shouldn't teach after they are no longer competitive. They have no knowledge or skill in teaching, nor any talent to teach, let alone teach golf.

13 hours ago, David in FL said:

It isn’t intended to insult, It’s simply an old adage. 

But it's an incorrect and damaging one that should vanish from usage. I think we'd all agree that golf, and the world at large, can use more smart, dedicated, trained, and fairly compensated teachers.

Edited April 19, 2019 by chspeed

[Binh Nguyen]

Playing at your level and teaching need two different skill sets I think.

I don’t know about the US but in Japan only like top 20 of the players there could live by playing golf exclusively, the others all have to do teaching or second jobs.

 

[3jacker]

On 4/18/2019 at 1:06 PM, iacas said:

That's an insulting bit of absolute bullshit, but beyond that, cool.

Yeah, every teacher I've ever had (not just golf) could do what he was teaching. Very well.