Buying Clubs Online - What Did I Do Wrong?

[Puj]

Hi all, 

As a newbie to golf, I made the mistake of turning to gumtree (a second hand classifieds website popular in Australia) in a bid to keep costs down for my first set of entry level clubs. I bought what I thought was a nice affordable set of "Texan Classics", steel shafts on the irons. 

Unfortunately, the worst case has happened. 4 of the club heads have snapped clean off the steel shafts (all irons) through the course of my first round with them, all on fairly innocuous shots that made primary contact with the ball. 

You can see pictures attached.

Now I know it is what it is, and I have lost my money on this set. Lesson learned about going down this route vs more verified means of buying clubs from reputable brands. 

I'd love to learn from this though, so that I (and maybe others?) can avoid the same mistakes again.

Based on the pictures, what do you think the issue is with the clubs? Manufacturing? too much/not enough epoxy? Wrong type of epoxy? Or was I just completely swindled ie it's not steel at all? The guys at my pro shop wondered if it was a zinc alloy popular in the 80s, though based on the style and design of the clubs, I just don't think they are that old. 

The other question is, what can I (and others) do when inspecting clubs to identify faults like this (if anything) and avoid the mistake I have made.

Thanks for your advice! Whilst I'm bummed about the purchase, I'm trying not to let it dampen my excitement for golf and instead am looking at it as a teachable moment. Unfortunately I don't have any avid golfers in my circle of family and friends to turn to for advice.

 

 

[iacas]

I've almost never seen a HOSEL break like that. Usually a clubhead will snap just ABOVE the hosel, on the shaft, but those are just some really, really, really poorly made clubs, probably with cheap steel.

Order name brand clubs, which can be quite inexpensive when used. That's my advice.

[Groucho Valentine]

wtf? 

Yeah, just buy used. Maybe a 4-5 years old. If you buy online, just make sure you buy from a individual seller that has plenty of good pictures of the clubs instead of a online retailer. 

[Vinsk]

Yeah I’ve never seen that before. @Adam C builds clubs...what do you make of this? But yes as others said you’re much safer and better off to buy used quality brands.

[Club Rat]

1 hour ago, Puj said:

The guys at my pro shop wondered if it was a zinc alloy popular in the 80s,

Never heard of the clubs, but probably an inexpensive starter set.

Did a search on Zinc Alloy golf clubs and hit this site. http://www.golfinstruction.com/features/pinemeadow-metal-test-870.htm

Quote

Zinc and Aluminum alloys are primarily used in beginner's sets (usually junior sets) and putters. Zinc and Aluminum are generally softer and will not have the long term life of harder metals. Their purpose is to introduce golf at an entry level price, with the recommendation of replacement after a few years. HST Aluminum is a much harder aluminum and is popular in very large entry level drivers. Its light weight allows you to expand the volume but still keep the optimal weighting needed for good club balance. Like the Zinc and Aluminum they offer an inexpensive oversize driver.

 

 

[LMoore]

Just looks like cheap, cast imitations of a real golf club.

2ndswing.com is the site I would try. Realizing you are in Austrailia, [based on your post] shipping may be higher than it would be in the states, but at least you would have a retailer that would give you some recourse.

I have had an iron head come off as well as a 3 wood head spin on the shaft, but I've never seen what your picture shows.

Good luck, and welcome to The Sand Trap.

[Puj]

Thanks for all the advice, everyone.

I had a chance to inspect the clubs before purchase, and all looked fine from what I could see .. I was wondering what I should be looking out for at the hosel and club head to try and identify shoddy manufacturing. Sounds like it's just a really extreme outlier that I've picked up though.

The woods have been OK, but I did get noticeably less distance (even as a beginner) compared to some of the hire clubs I was hitting, so I think I might write these off entirely and get a new set. 

I'm tossing up between a new set of the wilson SGI's, the spalding elite's, callaway's strata range, or a used set of Callaway XR's. Unfortunately nothing else around in my price range in AU (for a lefty)..

[Pretzel]

Yeah, unfortunately those were just poorly made clubs. Either the casting process was garbage, the material was garbage, or both were bad. Nothing you can do to inspect this before the purchase unless you hit them on the range, because the flaws and defects that cause it won't be apparent from just looking at them.

If you stick with a name brand such as Wilson, Spalding, or Callaway you shouldn't have any of these problems because the casting process for the heads (and the material used) will be of a much higher quality. Of the clubs you mentioned I would most strongly recommend the used Callaway XR's, since those are a solid set of irons for a beginner that will last you for a long time. 

For reference on how long a set of quality irons will last, in 2009 I bought a set of used PING Eye 2 irons manufactured prior to 1990 with the exempted square grooves. They'd been used for decades with the only modification being that they had been re-gripped dozens of times. I put in my preferred shafts of the time, used them for 3 years, then reshafted them after needing an x-flex instead of a regular and used them for 2 more. 

It was only then that I decided to replace them, simply because I had hit the 8-iron (and other clubs) so many times on the course and range that the grooves were disappearing. You can see photos of this in the thread I linked below, where the bottom groove of the 8-iron was just gone and the other grooves were actually becoming significantly narrower because of the metal folding in on top of the cut out section.

Suffice to say, you will not have longevity problems from a set of Callaway XR irons from 2015.

[Adam C]

Either those are the cheapest, most poorly manufactured irons ever, or you have the most violent golf swing in the history of the game!!

Kidding aside, I have seen clubs break like this but only with starter sets. 4 breaking in one round though is extra impressive, in a bad way. Cheap materials, bad heat treatment, previous misuse, who knows. I definitely would not use any of the still in one piece clubs though as they are clearly dangerous.

[pganapathy]

Look at a starter set.  They are reasonably cheap.  In India a full set with bag is 300 to 400 USD.  Additionally, look at used sets from reputable manufacturers.  They can be quite cheap, but in doing that, go to a reputable store/site.

I must admit that old clubs are not all bad.  We have a set of Dunlop clubs that my father purchased in 1986, and though it is currently an extra set, I still play with them.  Only one club (8 iron if memory serves) had a shaft break near the hosel, and I then had it repaired and since the shaft is shorter, it is more like a 8.5 iron.  Put I still play the clubs and there are no problems with the set.  So don't worry about buying a used set.

[Puj]

Thanks guys. That's comforting news re: the longevity of a good set.

Re: Dangerous - good point. They're quite chunky pieces of metal and one of them landed not far at all from where my playing partner was standing. Such a shame! Let this be a warning sign for all those tempted by a cheap but good looking non-name set with little-to-no information available on the internet. 

I will try to secure the XR set and failing that will look at the others. 

Really appreciate all the advice for a newbie to the forums. Very welcoming!

[MarvChamp]

@pug check Maltby Playability Factor charts for clubs that have stood the test of time in various categories. E.g., some older Big Bertha's are, in my opinion, as good for a beginner as anything on the market. Then follow up with other research. Only buy from sellers who have a top reputation and offer a money back return period. Anyway, best of luck on your new adventure, -Marv

[Pretzel]

On 4/23/2019 at 6:33 AM, MarvChamp said:

@pug check Maltby Playability Factor charts for clubs that have stood the test of time in various categories. E.g., some older Big Bertha's are, in my opinion, as good for a beginner as anything on the market. Then follow up with other research. Only buy from sellers who have a top reputation and offer a money back return period. Anyway, best of luck on your new adventure, -Marv

The Maltby Playability Factor is useless when it comes to determining how easy or hard to hit a given model of clubs will be.

I play Mizuno MP4 irons, which are muscleback blades, with a MPF of 397. The 2016 Titleist AP2 irons, which are significantly easier to hit than my blades, have a MPF of 417. The 2016 Titleist CB blades have a MPF of 464, almost 50 higher than the far more forgiving AP2 irons.

They also rate the PING i210 irons as having a MPF of only 338, and I can assure you that the i210 irons are immensely more forgiving than my MP4's despite having a 59 point lower MPF. They also rate the i200 irons, the direct predecessor to the i210 irons, at more than 100 points higher on the MPF scale at 474 despite the fact that the i200 and i210 irons are virtual identical in terms of playability according to pretty much every review out there.

They also claim that the i500 Forged irons, with a MOI of 15.6808, are SUBSTANTIALLY less forgiving than the iBlades, with their MOI of 14.1625 (188 for i500 Forged vs 430 for iBlade). The i500 Forged irons also have a COG that is positioned further to the rear than on the iBlades.

The Maltby Playability Factor severely overrates the vertical center of gravity, and it fails to properly account for different lofts in different sets of irons. Part of why the i500 Forged loses so many points to the iBlades is because it's 6-iron (the only measured clubhead for MPF) has 27 degrees of loft instead of 31 degrees like the iBlades. Hell, even the 7-iron of the i500 Forged irons has less loft (30.5 degrees) than an iBlade 6-iron.

Maltby may be many things, but a good evaluator of which clubs are forgiving he is not. He designed the system to maximize the ratings of his own clubhead designs, weighting the importance of different measurements accordingly.

[MarvChamp]

On 4/24/2019 at 4:18 PM, Pretzel said:

The Maltby Playability Factor is useless when it comes to determining how easy or hard to hit a given model of clubs will be.

Well, that's certainly an opinion for the OP to take into account. Other research should be considered, as I said, including your own. Best wishes, -Marv

[Pretzel]

14 hours ago, MarvChamp said:

Well, that's certainly an opinion for the OP to take into account. Other research should be considered, as I said, including your own. Best wishes, -Marv

It's an opinion that has been backed up with facts and data.

The MPF is an opinion on club playability, one created specifically to favor the clubs that Maltby himself manufactures (the second part there is a fact, not an opinion).

[ohsigmachi]

GEEZ!! I have a Nike Pro-combo set from 2002 and I snapped a shaft just below the grip, but the heads are still rock solid. I just bought a new shaft and grip and it was good as new!

Whole set (4-PW) cost me $140 US.

[LarryEdwards]

Check out local pawn shops too

[MOODY]

That has to be the cheapest made Chinese steel in existence.  I feel you trying to save some cash as new clubs have gotten insane on the price tag.

Go used and when you find a great used website that really has great prices give me shout.