Edoardo Molinari Posts Slow Players List

[iacas]

 

[Grinde6]

I saw this over the weekend.  This is good stuff here.  They must have this available for the PGA Tour as well, no?  Would be interesting to see that one too, and see the names that coincide on the two lists.

[David in FL]

Slow players should be made to wear a scarlet “S” !

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Slow players should be made to wear a scarlet “S” !

Make their caddies wear red bibs or something so they stand out.

[Groucho Valentine]

What do those charts mean? 

[DeadMan]

7 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

What do those charts mean? 

This is my best guess:

• Timed: how many times a player was in a group that was put on the clock.
• Breaches: how many times a player, after being put on the clock, played slower than is allowed under their policy
• Played: (not sure about this one, but my best guess) how many European Tour events the player has played in
• Fine total: How much a player has been fined

[Groucho Valentine]

16 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

This is my best guess:

• Timed: how many times a player was in a group that was put on the clock.
• Breaches: how many times a player, after being put on the clock, played slower than is allowed under their policy
• Played: (not sure about this one, but my best guess) how many European Tour events the player has played in
• Fine total: How much a player has been fined

That makes a little more sense, i guess.  

But its going to take a bold faced name to get penalized strokes (ala Tiger, Speith, DJ etc) for players to take pace of play policies seriously. But at the same time, how fast do they expect 140 players to play on 7400 yard golf courses set up to pro difficulty?  

[DaveP043]

7 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

That makes a little more sense, i guess.  

But its going to take a bold faced name to get penalized strokes (ala Tiger, Speith, DJ etc) for players to take pace of play policies seriously. But at the same time, how fast do they expect 140 players to play on 7400 yard golf courses set up to pro difficulty?  

If you're Molinari, less than 5 and a half hours.  And that was on a course with "no rough", as Molinari says.

I love seeing this type of information, but I think some caution should be used.  You don't have to be a slow player to be put on the clock, you have to be paired with a slow player.  But when your group is on the clock multiple times, the slow player is likely to be the common denominator, YOU.  I agree with @Groucho Valentine, I think that stoke penalties are the only "punishment" that can really decrease slow play.  What does a $3000 fine matter, really?  And the system makes it really hard to get a stroke penalty.  Fall well behind the (already not fast) group in front, THEN get a warning for taking too long over a shot, THEN take too long again.  I think the Tour(s) have intentionally made a policy under which it is very difficult to be assessed a stroke penalty.

And of course, some players simply don't care.  Remember Bryson, telling us its pretty amazing that they can usually hit a shot in under 40 seconds?  Or Day, telling us that he'll continue to take as much time as he thinks he needs to take to play his best?  Shame won't work, warnings and small fines won't work, strokes might.

[saevel25]

I think slow play should be penalized with a penalty stroke. I am not sure how they would manage it though. I wouldn't want an entire group penalized for one person. Would they have a person following each group?

Its something that needs worked on. I am not sure of the logistics.

[ChrisP]

38 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I think slow play should be penalized with a penalty stroke. I am not sure how they would manage it though. I wouldn't want an entire group penalized for one person. Would they have a person following each group?

Its something that needs worked on. I am not sure of the logistics.

Agree. Too many warnings and not enough action it seems. I mean, how many players per year are actually hit with penalty strokes for slow play? I feel like there's probably like a thousand warnings but maybe a total of a 5-10 actual penalties. The only way these guys are actually going to learn to pick up speed is if there are consequences for their slow play. For example, Jordan Spieth took something like 15-20 minutes to play a shot at Birkdale a couple years ago and didn't even get a warning for that. I get the circumstance and all, but come on.

Edited April 29, 2019 by ChrisP

[DaveP043]

10 minutes ago, ChrisP said:

Agree. Too many warnings and not enough action it seems. I mean, how many players per year are actually hit with penalty strokes for slow play? I feel like there's probably like a thousand warnings but maybe a total of a 5-10 actual penalties. The only way these guys are actually going to learn to pick up speed is if there are consequences for their slow play. For example, Jordan Spieth took something like 15-20 minutes to play a shot at Birkdale a couple years ago and didn't even get a warning for that. I get the circumstance and all, but come on.

At Birkdale, most of the time was spent waiting for official confirmation of Speith's options, its hard to blame that in the player.  

But you're wrong about 5 to 10 penalty shots being applied, there are virtually none.  Corey Pavin got a one-stroke penalty last year.  There was one penalty issued in 2017, oddly enough in the Zurich Classic in New Orleans.  Before that, it was 1995, and Glen Day.

[Vinsk]

“Listen, golf courses are long, golf courses are hard, we’re playing for a lot of money, it’s a big business, it is what it is,” McDowell said. “There’s just no way to speed the game up really. You can try these small percentiles, but at the end of the day it’s very hard to get around a 7,600-yard golf course with tucked pins with a three-ball in less than 4:45, 5 hours. You can’t do it.”

- GMAC.

Unfortunately I think many players agree with this. I don’t.

[ncates00]

Use a shot clock.  Put it on a scoreboard or have a guy carry it around like they do with the relative to par score sign.  It's an easy solution.  Start the shot clock when they arrive at their ball and it is their turn, just like you would with lost ball searches.  The only question is how much time do we allocate, in my view.

First offense: verbally warned by official.

Second offense: 1 shot penalty.

Third offense: 2 shot penalty.

Fourth offense: DQ for the tournament.

The only injustice I can think of is the fact that if the shot clock starts on your turn, the first to play is at a disadvantage, because the clock starts immediately on their arrival, whereas the other players effectively get extra time while the other is playing.  Perhaps then, the first player gets a little extra time.  I'm not sure how to remedy this.  

What do you guys think?

Edited April 29, 2019 by ncates00

[iacas]

31 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

At Birkdale, most of the time was spent waiting for official confirmation of Speith's options, its hard to blame that in the player.  

Eh…

It's not like Grellar needed to walk forward, to pace off the yardage, to stand there and give Jordan an aiming point, etc. None of that had anything to do with Spieth and his "options."

22 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Unfortunately I think many players agree with this. I don’t.

Nor do I.

[Groucho Valentine]

13 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

Use a shot clock.  Put it on a scoreboard or have a guy carry it around like they do with the relative to par score sign.  It's an easy solution.  Start the shot clock when they arrive at their ball and it is their turn, just like you would with lost ball searches.  The only question is how much time do we allocate, in my view.

First offense: verbally warned by official.

Second offense: 1 shot penalty.

Third offense: 2 shot penalty.

Fourth offense: DQ for the tournament.

The only injustice I can think of is the fact that if the shot clock starts on your turn, the first to play is at a disadvantage, because the clock starts immediately on their arrival, whereas the other players effectively get extra time while the other is playing.  Perhaps then, the first player gets a little extra time.  I'm not sure how to remedy this.  

What do you guys think?

Shot clocks seem like a solution, but i dont think theres a fair way to apply it. I think that would be very difficult to apply to the 60-70 individual competitors on the golf course who all playing at different times. Shot clocks usually govern an entire playing arena where everyone is playing at the same time.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Groucho Valentine

[ncates00]

8 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

Shot clocks seem like a solution, but i dont think theres a fair way to apply it. I think that would be very difficult to apply to the 60-70 individual competitors on the golf course who all playing at different times. Shot clocks usually govern an entire playing arena where everyone is playing at the same time.

It can certainly apply fairly.  It's no less fair than playing golf in great conditions v. a later group playing in terrible conditions.  You can start the shot clock upon arrival at the ball for each player.  The only issue is the first player having less effective time than other players in the group (the latter players get to check wind, distances, etc. while the other plays).  Perhaps give the first to play an extra minute or something.  

Edited April 29, 2019 by ncates00

[Vinsk]

30 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

Shot clocks seem like a solution, but i dont think theres a fair way to apply it. I think that would be very difficult to apply to the 60-70 individual competitors on the golf course who all playing at different times. Shot clocks usually govern an entire playing arena where everyone is playing at the same time.

Didn’t they use a shot clock in Europe during a tournament and it worked just fine?

[DaveP043]

4 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Didn’t they use a shot clock in Europe during a tournament and it worked just fine?

They did, and if I remember correctly, the scores were about the same as in the un-clocked event the previous year.  But I think that worked fine as a novelty, I don't think it will ever be instituted as an overall policy.  

As far as I understand, the players essentially make their own pace of play policy.  I don't believe that enough players want to toughen the policy to actually make it happen.  I'd bet that each player can picture himself being in a tough situation, one where he needs a little extra time, and doesn't want a policy that could ever penalize himself.  For every Adam Scott there's a Jason Day, with most players in between those two attitudes.  I don't believe that the networks or advertisers care very much, as long as they know how to schedule so the play ends about on time.  So we're stuck with a few vocal complainers, a number of very visible instances of slow play, a policy that makes it extremely difficult to penalize slow play, and officials (employees of the Tour) who are hesitant to enforce even the very lenient policy.