Ball Lands in Moving Cart and Eventually Falls Out

[bones75]

this didn't happen to me, just imagined it and got curious. if you hit into the group in front of you and it lands in their moving golfcart, which after travelling some distance the golf ball falls off the cart. Is it in play from there?  

[KrisF]

-Rule 9.6 Ball Lifted or Moved by Outside Influence-

If it is known or virtually certain that an outside influence lifted or moved your ball there is no penalty. The ball must be replaced on its original spot (which if not known must be estimated).

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, KrisF said:

-Rule 9.6 Ball Lifted or Moved by Outside Influence-

If it is known or virtually certain that an outside influence lifted or moved your ball there is no penalty. The ball must be replaced on its original spot (which if not known must be estimated).

Rule 9 is about a ball at rest moved. This ball wasn't at rest.

Look at Rule 11.

[KrisF]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

Rule 9 is about a ball at rest moved. This ball wasn't at rest.

Look at Rule 11.

 It could've came to rest then moved then came to rest again. (Came to rest in the moving object). And Rule 11.1 brings you back to rule 9 and so on.

Edited July 18, 2019 by KrisF

[bones75]

I'm looking at the rules and am still puzzled. Does come to rest mean relative to the earth at large? or just the object the ball itself is resting on? can't figure out where the "relief area" is

[KrisF]

In this situation Technically the ball is lifted from the ground so 9.6 would apply as far as I know.   

 

[iacas]

7 hours ago, KrisF said:

In this situation Technically the ball is lifted from the ground so 9.6 would apply as far as I know.   

No. Rule 11.

Specifically 11.1b exception 1.

[bones75]

@iacas (or others) If you'd be so kind, could you dumb this down for me? (I am a self proclaimed dumb-dumb) 

For 11.1 exception 1: "When Ball Is Anywhere Except on Putting Green. The player must drop the original ball or another ball in this relief area (see Rule 14.3):" 

So I get what you're saying that you have to take relief, but when I read 14.3 I can't seem to figure out where exactly the relief area is.

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, bones75 said:

@iacas (or others) If you'd be so kind, could you dumb this down for me? (I am a self proclaimed dumb-dumb) 

For 11.1 exception 1: "When Ball Is Anywhere Except on Putting Green. The player must drop the original ball or another ball in this relief area (see Rule 14.3):" 

So I get what you're saying that you have to take relief, but when I read 14.3 I can't seem to figure out where exactly the relief area is.

Quote

• Reference Point: The estimated point right under where the ball first came to rest on the person, animal or moving outside influence.

• Size of Relief Area Measured from Reference Point: One club-length, but with these limits:

• Limits on Location of Relief Area:

  • Must be in the same area of the course as the reference point, and

  • Must not be nearer the hole than the reference point.

So your reference point is where the ball lands in the moving cart.  The relief area is an area with a radius of 1 clublength from the reference point, that is no nearer the hole than the reference point, and in the same area of the course (i.e. general area, penalty area, bunker, etc)

[DrvFrShow]

That's my question too. So essentially it's the estimated carry distance of your shot within 1 club length no nearer the hole? I'd say just guess where you hit the cart and drop a ball without going through all the club length measuring unless you're in a tournament because without a forward spotter the distance in no way will be exact especially since the cart was moving. "It hit the cart somewhere around here." "Just drop a ball and let's play on."

[Asheville]

"I estimate that my ball landed in the cart here. I'm going to stick a tee in the ground here and drop, without penalty, a ball within one club-length of that tee but not nearer the hole. "

[DaveP043]

2 hours ago, DrvFrShow said:

That's my question too. So essentially it's the estimated carry distance of your shot within 1 club length no nearer the hole? I'd say just guess where you hit the cart and drop a ball without going through all the club length measuring unless you're in a tournament because without a forward spotter the distance in no way will be exact especially since the cart was moving. "It hit the cart somewhere around here." "Just drop a ball and let's play on."

I can't find a requirement to mark a reference point, or measure anything, you're just required to drop it in the appropriate relief area, drop it the right way, and have it remain in the right area.  You estimate as best you can the location where the ball goes into the cart (it might not be carry, it could have bounced in).  Then you drop it within 1 clublength no closer to the hole.  Marking a reference point only makes it clearer that a ball has bounced towards the hole, or has rolled outside the relief area.

[Vinsk]

If the cart took off and the ball stayed in the cart and you weren’t able to retrieve it is that a lost ball? Or do you still get the drop from where it entered the cart?

[iacas]

3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I can't find a requirement to mark a reference point

You don't have to, but the reference point exists regardless of whether you mark it or not. Marking it makes sense so you don't accidentally play a ball that bounces an inch forward or so, which is technically not a legal drop if it bounced forward of the reference point (the point on the line back from the hole where the ball first touches the course).

Which is what your last sentence says.

But yes, no, there's often no actual NEED to mark the reference area, so long as you drop in the area.

57 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

If the cart took off and the ball stayed in the cart and you weren’t able to retrieve it is that a lost ball? Or do you still get the drop from where it entered the cart?

If you know it went into the cart, it's not a lost ball, no.