Is This Legal - Marking Ball with Toe of Putter?

[guiseppe]

Reading through this and the rules, I am still not sure if it is legal t....

Ball maker is a specifically defined term:  I wouldn't think a putter is  a "small piece of equipment?"

Ball-Marker

An artificial object when used to mark the spot of a ball to be lifted, such as a tee, a coin, an object made to be a ball-marker or another small piece of equipment..  

Edited October 23, 2019 by guiseppe

[Rulesman]

9 minutes ago, guiseppe said:

Reading through this and the rules, I am still not sure if it is legal t....

Ball maker is a specifically defined term:  I wouldn't think a putter is  a "small piece of equipment?"

Ball-Marker

An artificial object when used to mark the spot of a ball to be lifted, such as a tee, a coin, an object made to be a ball-marker or another small piece of equipment..  

Did you not read post #2?

14.1a

.....the player must mark the spot which means to:

• Place a ball-marker right behind or right next to the ball, or

• Hold a club on the ground right behind or right next to the ball.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Rulesman

[guiseppe]

"Did you not read post #2?"

apparently not all of it...

Edited October 23, 2019 by guiseppe

[Lihu]

On 10/22/2019 at 1:24 AM, DaveP043 said:

@ChetlovesMer its not that anyone doesn't want to help with these kinds of things, but its really a good idea for YOU to learn to research these kinds of things yourself.  There's no better way to remember something than to have looked it up for yourself.   And once you know how to find things in the Rules, you'll be able to answer these kinds of problems while you're still on the course.

Yeah, but it’s way more fun to post on this site and see if I can get an answer before my buddies have looked in up in their app/book or argue about and compare those to all the wrong answers I could get before a moderator or admin come back with the right answer 😂

I’ve always been surprised that this site is more real time than Golf WRX 😁🤪😂

[Missouri Swede]

3 hours ago, Lihu said:

I’ve always been surprised that this site is more real time than Golf WRX 😁🤪😂

It would speed things up if you’d livestream your golf rounds. You know, get call-ins about rules violations. 

[Whiner]

A few years ago in a breezy British Open a player left a putt within 1-2 feet.  Approaching he must have seen the ball osculating as he was fumbling to get his ball marker out when he reached the ball.  Too late, the wind/gravity got it and the ball ended up many feet away.

Can't recall if he had put on rain pants or wanted to mark to avoid others' lines, but he could have put the putter down and lifted in a blink! 

[Lihu]

On 10/23/2019 at 8:28 PM, Missouri Swede said:

It would speed things up if you’d livestream your golf rounds. You know, get call-ins about rules violations. 

Snapchat every shot! 😂

[denkea]

On 10/22/2019 at 1:45 PM, DaveP043 said:

The rules allow the location of the ball to be marked using a "ball marker", or by setting a club next to or behind the ball.  Interestingly, the definition of "ball marker" requires it to be something artificial, so by strict interpretation a small stone or a seashell wouldn't be acceptable.  Similarly, making a mark on the grass, or using the trail in the dew wouldn't be acceptable. As far as I can tell looking at last year's rules, this definition of "ball marker" is new.  Check Rule 20-1 here:

Rules Of Golf 2016

There's a recommendation that a coil or similar object be used, but no specific requirement other than that the position must be marked.

 

That is a PGA tour rule.  You can't use the toe of your putter during PGA tour events.  But with USGA events you can.  

[Asheville]

2 hours ago, denkea said:

 

That is a PGA tour rule.  You can't use the toe of your putter during PGA tour events.  But with USGA events you can.  

Don't make things up. Unless you can prove it . . . it's rubbish.

[denkea]

16 hours ago, Asheville said:

Don't make things up. Unless you can prove it . . . it's rubbish.

NOT made up.  Prove it to be false.  

[DaveP043]

27 minutes ago, denkea said:

NOT made up.  Prove it to be false.  

Do you have a copy of the PGA policy you can share with us?  Use of the putter is specifically allowed under the rules, so it seems unlikely that it would be disallowed by the tour.

[Lihu]

Google...

PGA Rules for Ball Markers | Golfweek

---

For a casual, non-competitive golfer, marking your ball may be just a simple courtesy to a player who’s farther from...

 

[ncates00]

10 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Google...

PGA Rules for Ball Markers | Golfweek

---

For a casual, non-competitive golfer, marking your ball may be just a simple courtesy to a player who’s farther from...

 

Not what he asked.  See below.

12 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

a copy of the PGA policy

 

[DaveP043]

35 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Google...

PGA Rules for Ball Markers | Golfweek

---

For a casual, non-competitive golfer, marking your ball may be just a simple courtesy to a player who’s farther from...

that refers to the old rules, the new rules specifically allow the use of the putter to mark the ball, so the PGA would have to specifically disallow it.  I'm not sure that the committee is authorized to do that.

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by DaveP043

[Lihu]

Have the PGA rules changed in that the players follow USGA rules? That’s in the big print of what I posted, and if that changed then that would be a pretty radical change... Oh well, this PGA branch is kind of off topic anyway 😜

[iacas]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

Do you have a copy of the PGA policy you can share with us?  Use of the putter is specifically allowed under the rules, so it seems unlikely that it would be disallowed by the tour.

I have a copy of the Players Handbook and Tournament Regulations for 2017-2018 and a friend had the 2019 one and we both searched for the word "mark" and no such rule was apparent prohibiting the use of the toe of the putter to mark the location of the ball for a quick adjustment, etc.

"mark" most often appeared as "marker" as in "tee marker" or "permanent marker" as well as "market" or "marketing."

The word "putter" does not appear, nor does the word "coin."

Ball's in your court to prove your claim, @denkea.

32 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

that refers to the old rules, the new rules specifically allow the use of the putter to mark the ball, so the PGA would have to specifically disallow it.  I'm not sure that the committee is authorized to do that.

The old rules specifically allowed marking the ball with the toe of the putter, too. 20-1/16 covered it well enough:

That's not a recent change, either.

[Asheville]

1 hour ago, denkea said:

NOT made up.  Prove it to be false.  

Oh, really! Look up the PGA Tour hard card. You'll find no reference to your silly assertion.

If that's not good enough for you, go look at RoG 2019, Committee Procedures and show us the authorization for your made up Rule.

BS isn't allowed to stand in this folder.

[denkea]

USGA RULES OF GOLF
Play in all PGA TOUR cosponsored, approved or coordinated tournaments shall be con- ducted in accordance with the USGA Rules of Golf, as modified by PGA TOUR. A copy of such modifications, including Local Rules and Conditions of Competition for PGA TOUR, and a Notice to Competitors (Players), which shall describe any special Local Rules and Conditions, will be made available to players prior to their starting times.

 

Players Handbook and Tournament Regulations that you looked at doesn't include specific rules.  You would need to have access to "Special Local Rules and Conditions of Competition".

I made the statement which I know to be true.  Believe me or not.  If you don't, prove it to be false.  

Edited October 27, 2019 by denkea