Important Things No One Talks About

[Bonvivant]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

That's not, by definition, how that works.

Correct. If they are causing you to lose 40 yards, they aren't little things.

[DaveP043]

51 minutes ago, mighty said:

But golf requires so much precision, even if you do the major things right, small details here and there a little off probably mean death of the swing, perhaps distance loss of over 40 yards and a difference of 20 handicap. For me, little hand and arm issues had costed me 20-30 mph ball speed.   

Its quite possible that your "minor issues" were actually a lot more significant than you realized at the time.  Its also possible that what seems like a small change to one thing causes a significant improvement in something that was presenting a much larger problem.  An instructor might see the BIG problem, but might approach it by working with a player on what seems like a small change.  

[birdie seeker]

The mechanics don't cause the swing. The swing causes the mechanics!

[iacas]

5 hours ago, birdie seeker said:

The mechanics don't cause the swing. The swing causes the mechanics!

Got any more hocus pocus to talk about?

Edited February 2, 2020 by iacas
Typo

[birdie seeker]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Got any more hocus pocus to talk about?

I don't appreciate the insult!

Edited February 2, 2020 by iacas
Typo

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, birdie seeker said:

I don't appreciate the insult!

There’s no insult. I merely don’t think talking about frou-frou stuff is helpful.

[birdie seeker]

Ernest Jones & Manuel De La Torre were excellent teachers. They didn't teach swing mechanics. I make a simple statement and you make me look like an idiot.  hocus pocus...….frou-frou stuff. Yeah, I feel insulted!

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, birdie seeker said:

Ernest Jones & Manuel De La Torre were excellent teachers. They didn't teach swing mechanics. I make a simple statement and you make me look like an idiot.  hocus pocus...….frou-frou stuff. Yeah, I feel insulted!

Don’t be so quick to feel insulted. Grow a pair. Or a thicker skin.

And, I’m familiar with what they taught.

[snapfade]

30 minutes before you sit down to eat, you don't warm up with the knife and fork, you don't take practice chews, you just sit down and go at it. Someone showed you how to use a knife and fork when you were a little kid. You did not meet with an instructor from time to time, you just ate. So why cant that be the same for a golf swing? Most of us I here, I'm sure, knows what a good swing feels like, so why cant we just repeat it? I know the swing gurus will say that its an unnatural motion or too many things that can go wrong, or so forth, and I get that. But the fact remains the same, you know what it feels like so just do the same thing again. It's mental I believe. There is something in the mind that prevents that from happening. Years and years of perfect practice should not matter if we can figure out how to repeat exactly what we did 5 seconds ago. Does this make any sense at all?   

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, snapfade said:

Does this make any sense at all?   

No.

That’s laughable.

Comparing golf to using a fork? C’mon.

[snapfade]

Its the only example I could think of, I was just thinking that there has to be something other than the mechanics, the variables or whatever. Why can't we just repeat what we just did? 

[Piz]

Hey @iacas, I think he is talking about the Ernest Jones " swing the clubhead" idea.  There is a video, by a woman who won one of the earlier women's Briitish Opens, in which she uses that analogy.  The gist is:  if the club moves correctly...then your body must accommodate its movement.

[ghalfaire]

On 1/9/2020 at 4:35 PM, DaveP043 said:

Hey, i DID graduate college in 1978.  Well, I guess maybe i AM old too.  But still alive, for now 

I got a BS in Engineering in 1971 after I got out of the service.  If you're old I must be ancient.

 

[iacas]

38 minutes ago, snapfade said:

Why can't we just repeat what we just did? 

We aren’t robots.

33 minutes ago, Piz said:

Hey @iacas, I think he is talking about the Ernest Jones " swing the clubhead" idea.  There is a video, by a woman who won one of the earlier women's Briitish Opens, in which she uses that analogy.  The gist is:  if the club moves correctly...then your body must accommodate its movement.

I know what he’s talking about. I’m familiar with Ernest Jones.

[iacas]

Let me be clear here too. Go ahead and come at me. It’s all good. If you can resist the urge to be offended by disagreement, come at my opinions. Defend yours.

[Keep It Simple]

2 hours ago, snapfade said:

Years and years of perfect practice should not matter if we can figure out how to repeat exactly what we did 5 seconds ago. Does this make any sense at all?   

We could live forever if we could figure out how to not die.  Does this make any sense at all?

[GolfLug]

7 hours ago, snapfade said:

30 minutes before you sit down to eat, you don't warm up with the knife and fork, you don't take practice chews, you just sit down and go at it. Someone showed you how to use a knife and fork when you were a little kid. You did not meet with an instructor from time to time, you just ate. So why cant that be the same for a golf swing? Most of us I here, I'm sure, knows what a good swing feels like, so why cant we just repeat it? I know the swing gurus will say that its an unnatural motion or too many things that can go wrong, or so forth, and I get that. But the fact remains the same, you know what it feels like so just do the same thing again. It's mental I believe. There is something in the mind that prevents that from happening. Years and years of perfect practice should not matter if we can figure out how to repeat exactly what we did 5 seconds ago. Does this make any sense at all?   

Yeah, your golf swings are repeatable too. Just like using your fork and chewing.

OTOH, you probably don't move your fork in as repeatable fashion as you think either because the small differences each time don't really matter.

I think the part you are missing is speed and forces of a moving clubhead compared to a fork. The difference in leverage used and margin of error allowed in moving a fork vs. a clubhead propelling a ball is prolly a couple of orders of magnitude if not more. 

You can practice all you want. Your clubface and path will always have a small variance cuz we ain't robots. Less the variance better the player. Simple.

Edited February 3, 2020 by GolfLug

[snapfade]

1 hour ago, GolfLug said:

Yeah, your golf swings are repeatable too. Just like using your fork and chewing.

OTOH, you probably don't move your fork in as repeatable fashion as you think either because the small differences each time don't really matter.

I think the part you are missing is speed and forces of a moving clubhead compared to a fork. The difference in leverage used and margin of error allowed in moving a fork vs. a clubhead propelling a ball is prolly a couple of orders of magnitude if not more. 

You can practice all you want. Your clubface and path will always have a small variance cuz we ain't robots. Less the variance better the player. Simple.

And that is the challenge we face in golf, too many variables. It just seems like IF there was some way for the mind to tell the body, " Swing the club exactly like you did it a second ago" someone would win a Nobel prize for science. Just something weird to think about.