LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[ChetlovesMer]

9 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Actually I read it differently.  LIV will be paying for production of the telecasts, and CW isn't paying LIV for the rights, but I didn't read that LIV is paying CW.  I did read that revenues (from ads, I believe) will be shared.  The more recent article I posted simply says that ad rates won't be able to be calculated using the normal measurements of viewers.

All of that could be. I drive around a lot for my job and my radio is pretty much always tuned to sports talk. The talking heads I heard definitely made it sound as if LIV was going to pay CW to air their tournaments. They cited CW's need to be profitable by a certain date as one of the primary reasons they took on the deal. 

[iacas]

National Press Club issues statement on LIV’s TV deal with CW Network

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The National Press Club is not happy.

[nvkevin]

This is all very interesting to me as the way the typical American sports industry and TV industry merge.  It always has seemed that the broadcast stations pay big bucks to the sports associations to air their competitions and use the advertising dollars to backfill/cover the expense.  Now, we are seeing the LIV tour, that is already highly controversial, have to PAY the broadcast station?  Seems a bit backwards, which we all know it is, but I think that it goes to show the appetite of the american TV industry for Saudi backed sports associations.  Moreover, I feel that it also shows how the broadcast stations believe the viewership will treat the tour.  We all know there are some big names on the LIV tour, but the broadcast stations must feel that the American people will not look past the history of the Saudi money.

This may have all been discussed already, but just my thoughts on the matter.

23 minutes ago, iacas said:

National Press Club issues statement on LIV’s TV deal with CW Network

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The National Press Club is not happy.

That is about as direct a statement as you can make.  Wow.  

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, nvkevin said:

This is all very interesting to me as the way the typical American sports industry and TV industry merge.

The "normal" way seems perfectly normal to me.  The sports industry is at its base "entertainment".  The tournaments are simply a commodity to sell.  The networks buy that commodity, and then in turn "re-sell" it to the advertisers, who use it as a billboard.  Its value as a billboard depends on viewers.

As you say, the major networks don't know that there will be enough viewers to attract advertising, whether due to the Saudi connection or to the format and the players, so they're not interested.  I don't think LIV is paying CW directly, from what I've read, they're simply lending their commodity to the CW, and will take a cut of what CW can bring in from advertising.  This seems a bit like a consignment shop model, rather than a more traditional retail store model.  But now that LIV will be on TV in some format, it'll be possible to draw some kind of comparisons between the two in terms of fan interest.

[nvkevin]

52 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The "normal" way seems perfectly normal to me.  The sports industry is at its base "entertainment".  The tournaments are simply a commodity to sell.  The networks buy that commodity, and then in turn "re-sell" it to the advertisers, who use it as a billboard.  Its value as a billboard depends on viewers.

As you say, the major networks don't know that there will be enough viewers to attract advertising, whether due to the Saudi connection or to the format and the players, so they're not interested.  I don't think LIV is paying CW directly, from what I've read, they're simply lending their commodity to the CW, and will take a cut of what CW can bring in from advertising.  This seems a bit like a consignment shop model, rather than a more traditional retail store model.  But now that LIV will be on TV in some format, it'll be possible to draw some kind of comparisons between the two in terms of fan interest.

I agree with you 100%. You articulated it much better than I did haha. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Well they got right to the point on this one... I'm thankful that we can post and discuss this here, unlike another heavily censored golf forum. 

We are deeply disappointed': National Press Club issues statement after LIV Golf announces TV deal with The CW Network

 

"We are deeply disappointed that a company that makes money from news like Nexstar would agree to participate in such a shameful PR stunt as LIV Golf, which is fundamentally designed to rehabilitate the Saudi reputation, tarnished irreparably by the state-ordered gruesome murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in October 2018..."

National Press Club issues statement on LIV’s TV deal with CW Network

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The National Press Club is not happy.

 

 

[ChetlovesMer]

On 1/21/2023 at 9:41 AM, DaveP043 said:

I don't think LIV is paying CW directly,

ESPN Radio's broadcasters are still saying that LIV IS paying CW directly to air their tournaments. They say the amount they are paying is undisclosed, and they've made some guesses, but they are definitely reporting that LIV is paying the CW. 

[iacas]

53 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Well they got right to the point on this one... I'm thankful that we can post and discuss this here, unlike another heavily censored golf forum.

We linked to that a few posts up, yeah.

[DaveP043]

31 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

ESPN Radio's broadcasters are still saying that LIV IS paying CW directly to air their tournaments. They say the amount they are paying is undisclosed, and they've made some guesses, but they are definitely reporting that LIV is paying the CW. 

I just did a quick search, and didn't see that reported in any article I read, but who really knows?  LIV is consistently reported as paying to produce the telecasts, and advertising revenues will be shared on some manner.  I've consistently read that CW will not be paying LIV, but can't find anything that says LIV will be paying CW.  I guess we'll find out eventually.

[DeadMan]

Another departure from LIV, this time the managing director, who is Saudi and the head of the Saudi Golf Federation. This will lead to Norman doing more. I do not understanding why elevating Greg Norman is a good idea at all, but it's happening.

https://www.si.com/golf/news/liv-golf-2023-schedule-greg-norman-elevated-role

And the full schedule is out:

https://www.si.com/golf/news/2023-liv-golf-league-schedule

These courses have zero appeal to me. And the big, season-ending event will take place in the middle of the night for American viewers. 

This has been mismanaged badly. I'm not sure I give this much longer without some big changes. Norman's only goal is to crush the PGA Tour, and it doesn't seem like that will happen. Imagine if LIV had done something with women's golf and not tried to upend the entire men's professional golf ecosystem.

[Vinsk]

13 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

Imagine if LIV had done something with women's golf and not tried to upend the entire men's professional golf ecosystem.

Yeah, but the underlying issue of who LIV is run by still clouds whatever they think they’re doing. Many people would still have that issue even if they attempt to do something positive for women’s golf.

[DaveP043]

16 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

These courses have zero appeal to me.

I've played two of those courses, in Orlando and Trump DC (in Sterling VA), so there's at least a little interest for me.  

 

16 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

I'm not sure I give this much longer without some big changes.

We really don't know what the Saudis view as "success" for this ven3ture, so I wouldn't make any guesses as to how long it will last.  They're certainly not worried about making money, at least in the short term.  

[mdl]

9 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

Another departure from LIV, this time the managing director, who is Saudi and the head of the Saudi Golf Federation. This will lead to Norman doing more. I do not understanding why elevating Greg Norman is a good idea at all, but it's happening.

https://www.si.com/golf/news/liv-golf-2023-schedule-greg-norman-elevated-role

And the full schedule is out:

https://www.si.com/golf/news/2023-liv-golf-league-schedule

These courses have zero appeal to me. And the big, season-ending event will take place in the middle of the night for American viewers. 

This has been mismanaged badly. I'm not sure I give this much longer without some big changes. Norman's only goal is to crush the PGA Tour, and it doesn't seem like that will happen. Imagine if LIV had done something with women's golf and not tried to upend the entire men's professional golf ecosystem.

Are women even allowed to play golf in the land of the house of Saud? Even if they are, the dudes in charge surely don't want to spend their money promoting servant/slave class (women) sports.

And as long as MBS thinks it's a good idea there is infinite money to keep LIV going. I won't watch but among golfers I've asked I'm in the minority. And I'm in Portland, where I assume even golfers are, on average, more liberal and thus more inclined to care about whether the league directly supports an evil dictatorship. 🤷🏼‍♂️ I think they've got a long runway left at minimum.

[ChetlovesMer]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

 I guess we'll find out eventually.

Maybe, maybe not.

Seems like everything is reported with a slant these days. Kind of worries me, to be truthful. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

We linked to that a few posts up, yeah.

Yeah thanks. I realized it after I posted it but by the time I got back to edit it I couldn't. 

[iacas]

Patrick Reed throws tee at Rory McIlroy in disgust after World No 1 appears to ignore American in Dubai

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Patrick Reed threw a tee at Rory McIlroy in disgust after the world number one appeared to ignore his efforts to say hello at the Emirates Golf Club, according to reports.

Reed stood near McIlroy a few seconds with the intention of saying hello but McIlroy did not even turn his head towards him.

Reed insisted in saluting McIlroy but after getting no response, he gave up and walked away but not before putting his hand in his pocket and throwing a tee in McIlroy’s direction in disgust.

The incident was the talk of the range and the tournament and comes after reports of tension during last year’s BMW International.

and

Before heading to Wentworth for the BMW PGA, McIlroy said: "I hate what it's doing to the game of golf. I hate it. I really do. Like it's going to be hard for me to stomach going to Wentworth in a couple of weeks' time and seeing 18 of them there. That just doesn't sit right with me.

[phillyk]

Are we losing sportsmanship and respect in all this? Be rivals all you want. But I don’t feel we should lose respect.

[dennyjones]

41 minutes ago, phillyk said:

Are we losing sportsmanship and respect in all this? Be rivals all you want. But I don’t feel we should lose respect.

We may be losing sportsmanship but respect is earned and lost easily.   PR thru his previous actions has lost respect of his piers.   I think a person can be sporting which is completely different than respect.    I guess we'd have to be Rory to know his intent.